Projected Sub...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Whomever told you accepting multiple substitutions on offense is projeected, that you can only accept changes on the current batter, is completely wrong.

You quote a bunch of non ASA rules after this... which are irrelevant. I can quote other orgs of baseball and softball that say the opposite - which are equally as irrelevant.

You can tell us here, on the internet where everything is true, that accepting multiple substitutions on offense should be allowed... but until ASA bothers defining "projected substitutions", or gets specific about when substitutions are official - it's just words.

I know that you, and Mike, are generally in the room when this stuff is discussed. So I believe you if you say that is the intent of ASA --- but given that this is different from many other rulesets (both BB and SB), it needs to be codified.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

ASA RS#51 adds "A substitute is considered in the game when reported to the plate umpire"; only unreported subs need to actually participate to be considered officially in the game.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You quote a bunch of non ASA rules after this... which are irrelevant. I can quote other orgs of baseball and softball that say the opposite - which are equally as irrelevant.

You can tell us here, on the internet where everything is true, that accepting multiple substitutions on offense should be allowed... but until ASA bothers defining "projected substitutions", or gets specific about when substitutions are official - it's just words.

Which part of my quote above is non ASA, nonspecific or unclear? I could also add 4-6.B; "A substitute shall be considered officially in the game when reported to the plate umpire." But you should have known that.

A reported sub is in the game when reported; even if that batting position isn't currently up. That isn't projected; the change is made now. An unreported sub is in the game when they actually participate.

Originally Posted by Manny A

Defensive coach comes to me between innings while he has #5 throwing her five warm-ups from the circle. He says, "Blue, I want to enter #10 who is over there in my bullpen as pitcher for #5 this inning. She'll start pitching when their #44 comes up."

I have to take that substitution and announce it to the opposing coach?

To respond accurately AND completely to that you coach, you need to say "Coach, if I accept that change as reported now, you must enter that player now, and #5 has been removed; now. If that is your intent, I can accept that change. However, if you want #5 to stay in the game until #44 comes up, then you need to hold this change and report it when you want that to happen."

That is obviously different from reporting an offensive change, where I am making the change now for a position in my batting order, which can and must be executed when reported. The coach has every right to make that change NOW, and you have no basis to say he has to report it again later.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If all this happens when I'm umpiring, then I'm only taking the sub when it happens, and I'm telling him so. I am not taking 25 for 26 at that moment - and coach will know that.

If I were that coach, I would make a point of making sure others witnessed me reporting it when I choose to, and would absolutely refuse to re-report it to you later. And then absolutely defy you to consider it an unreported sub. You lose that protest; the rule says that player is in the game when I report it to you. You can only refuse to accept illegal substitutions; and this isn't. There is absolute rules support for my position (and have quoted ASA, NFHS, and NCAA softball cites), and absolutely none for yours.

You can choose to say "projected" isn't defined; but you cannot ignore what IS specifically stated.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You quote a bunch of non ASA rules after this... which are irrelevant. I can quote other orgs of baseball and softball that say the opposite - which are equally as irrelevant.

You can tell us here, on the internet where everything is true, that accepting multiple substitutions on offense should be allowed... but until ASA bothers defining "projected substitutions", or gets specific about when substitutions are official - it's just words.

I know that you, and Mike, are generally in the room when this stuff is discussed. So I believe you if you say that is the intent of ASA --- but given that this is different from many other rulesets (both BB and SB), it needs to be codified.

Of course the original question had nothing to do with ASA.... LOL