NFHS - Umpire Responsible for Clearing bat

[EsqUmp]

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

One can start with the 30 foot difference in the base distance dimensions. Than go from there..... but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

Maximizing the Two-Umpire System on page 4, Section G-05
Clearing the Bat

Let me know what you think of his mechanic when you are done reading about it.

I should you mine, now you show me yours (ASA/NHSF/etc).

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

One can start with the 30 foot difference in the base distance dimensions. Than go from there..... but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

From Jim Evans' Manual

CLEARING THE BAT

1. With runners in scoring position, it may be advisable to remove a bat that may inhibit a runners slide or deflect a thrown ball to the plate. This is STRICTLY A COURTESY and not required mechanics. Your primary concern is to get in position for a play at the plate. If time permits, you may pick up the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field of play. Simply bend over, grab one end of the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field, do not kick or toss the bat in the air because people have been injured this way. Remember the acronym NAP that stands for NECESSARY, AVAILABLE, and POSSIBLE. Ask yourself is it necessary, available, or possible to move the bat.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

From Jim Evans' Manual

CLEARING THE BAT

1. With runners in scoring position, it may be advisable to remove a bat that may inhibit a runners slide or deflect a thrown ball to the plate. This is STRICTLY A COURTESY and not required mechanics. Your primary concern is to get in position for a play at the plate. If time permits, you may pick up the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field of play. Simply bend over, grab one end of the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field, do not kick or toss the bat in the air because people have been injured this way. Remember the acronym NAP that stands for NECESSARY, AVAILABLE, and POSSIBLE. Ask yourself is it necessary, available, or possible to move the bat.

great, so in a different game with different dimensions and timing. The confines of a softball field are also much tighter. Simply put, both are very different games.

If I am sued (batter gets injured sliding into a bat) and need to justify why I didn't move a batter,

Your hero above put it in CAPS. This is the very same theory as why is it not a good idea for some rec and 'beer' leagues who attempt to implement a 'sliding policy'. Because each play is different and each ballpark is different, stating that a procedure should be required (or even recommended) to be followed when it comes to detached equipment is a good idea how now?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Because each play is different and each ballpark is different, stating that a procedure should be required (or even recommended) to be followed when it comes to detached equipment is a good idea how now?

Not to mention the fact that the umpire doesn't own or operate the field, game or equipment.

It the bat being in a certain place is a problem, maybe that should be addressed to the individual who placed it there. There is no rule requiring the batter to leave the bat in the area. For that matter, they can take it with them. If the teams have a problem with discarded equipment, they control that situation, not the umpire.

I guess if a catcher breaks a leg stepping into a hole dug by the batter, it is the umpire's fault because s/he did not fill it in before the catcher stepped up

The entire argument is a joke, but then again.......

[x-tremeump]

Jim Evans and the Little League Baseball/Softball Umpire School teach the same thing, Clearing the bat is a courtesy, if you feel that it is necessary, the bat is available, and it is possible for you to safetly bend over while watching the field grab the bat and slide it on the ground away from the area. Both schools have drills that teach Umpires how to do this simple task. Little things can make the difference of being good & being great. Do not be afraid of trying something new, it might work.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not to mention the fact that the umpire doesn't own or operate the field, game or equipment.

The entire argument is a joke, but then again.......

So because we don't own any equipment, we shouldn't check it? Don't we do that as a courtesy for liability purposes.

The argument is far from a joke. If you don't like the mechanic, so be it. But your fear of anything that contradicts your cloned mechanics is troublesome. You've never used the mechanic so you can't speak from experience.

Someone with "two world cups" probably has enough contacts with ASA to get a written ruling. I look forward to seeing it.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

great, so in a different game with different dimensions and timing. The confines of a softball field are also much tighter. Simply put, both are very different games.

Your hero above put it in CAPS. This is the very same theory as why is it not a good idea for some rec and 'beer' leagues who attempt to implement a 'sliding policy'. Because each play is different and each ballpark is different, stating that a procedure should be required (or even recommended) to be followed when it comes to detached equipment is a good idea how now?

You specifically asked me if I had a citation from Jim Evans. Now that I provide it you childishly change the argument. If you want to say that it's okay for baseball but not softball because of field dimensions that is okay. But don't act like an immature baby after I give you what you were asking for. Maybe you only asked thinking I wouldn't have an answer. Obviously you were dead wrong. Now why don't you get me something in writing from ASA saying not to move it. I would still disagree with their philosophy and reason but respect the mechanic. I used similar language when saying when to move it as Evan's does in the portion you highlighted.

For now I will await a written ASA ruling. The people in this forum seem quite tight with the ASA elite so it shouldn't be long before you can get something in writing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Not only is softball the sport of discussion, it is NFHS.

And if you want to be really anal about it, softball more resembles the game Messrs. Cartwright, Spalding, et al misappropriated from our European ancestors. and like the other men of power in this country, they placed a face in front of it, only that face never even acknowledged any connection or knowledge of the game.

And even to that point, it more resembled what we now know as slow-pitch softball than any other game played in this country other than the game of Rounders presently played in North America.

Baseball is a different game on a different field with different equipment and, especially with MLB, different philosophies.

However, your reference to the little ball game explains a lot

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

I have no problem with Jim Evans, and I respect everything that he's done and accomplished.

But his sport is a completely different animal, and they treat their umpires accordingly. If he wants his umpires to clear the bats so that the marquee players making millions of dollars don't get injured, fine, they clear the bats.

My association says otherwise.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I have no problem with Jim Evans, and I respect everything that he's done and accomplished.

But his sport is a completely different animal, and they treat their umpires accordingly. If he wants his umpires to clear the bats so that the marquee players making millions of dollars don't get injured, fine, they clear the bats.

My association says otherwise.

Jim Evans has a league/conference/assocaition of his own?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Jim Evans has a league/conference/assocaition of his own?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Jim Evans has a league/conference/assocaition of his own?

Pretty much. He is one of two people granted the rights by MLB to write an professional baseball umpire manual to be applied to MLB. Likewise, he as one of two schools (Academy of Professional Umpiring) granted permission to train umpires to become professional answers. Additionally, he was the President of the Major League Baseball Umpires' Association - perhaps you've heard of this association.

Seems like a credible source to me. Certainly better than writing down some initials of someone at a local clinic.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

(Evans) is one of two people granted the rights by MLB to write an professional baseball umpire manual to be applied to MLB.

Just to be clear, Evan's book is not "the Major League Umpire Manual". To present it as such is, at the least, misinformed, at the worst, just down right deceptive. The "MLBUM" is a separate entity that overrides any directive or instruction offered in "Maximizing the Two-Umpire System".

The book's title alone should should clue you in that it isn't the be-all and end-all for Major League Baseball, or even aimed at that audience. How many MLB games utilize the two-umpire system?