Who Is Responsible For Bringing In Subs?

walter · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 12:56pm

There is a running debate on our board. NFHS mechanics.

Multiple Free Throw Situation. Second or Third Free Throw. Two man mechanics. Who is responsible for bringing subs in? Lead or trail? Why?

Same situation three man mechanics. Who brings in the subs? Lead, trail or center? Why?

Amazingly our board is all over the place on this.

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 01:31pm

Walter,

I think my answer is "whoever sees them at the table". Does either official ever have "primary" jurisdiction over subs? I don't think so. So what makes the FT situation different? In a 2-man situation, the L has the ball and should check the table before putting it in play; the T is facing the table so can easily see the subs approaching. Does it really matter who waves them in?

In a 3-man situation, the L responsibility is the same; the C has the same view as the T in a 2-man; and the T is standing very close to the table to hear the player saying "Sub, sub!" as he's sitting there.

If there's a definite answer, tho, I guess I'd like to know what it is.

Chuck

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 01:33pm

In three man mechanics, the trail will always beckon subs during a FT situation.

I don't know why it would be in different in two man.

Dan_ref · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
In three man mechanics, the trail will always beckon subs during a FT situation.

I don't know why it would be in different in two man.

It's not.

bob jenkins · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 02:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
In three man mechanics, the trail will always beckon subs during a FT situation.

I don't know why it would be in different in two man.

I agree -- it's the T.

But, if the T is sleeping, C or L can help out.

mick · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 02:53pm

1st throw: T is at mid court observing and beckoning.
Last throw: T looks over shoulder as he closes down on throw to assist, and a coach sends a late sub to report and always from the bench which is behind T.

Kelvin green · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 03:26pm

Here's one to think about. I know that we talk about it and in some games it's the person with the ball. That way there's no confusion when the players are on and off

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green
Here's one to think about. I know that we talk about it and in some games it's the person with the ball. That way there's no confusion when the players are on and off

It would seem to me that would only be necessary when there are 2 or 3 officials on the floor who don't have very good communication skills. If there's communication, there shouldn't be any confusion.

Obviously, the official with the ball always needs to make eye contact with partners before putting the ball into play, but I don't see where it would be necessary for him to beckon the subs. What if he misses one because he's 46' away?

We're a team. We need to work as a team.

mick · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 24, 2001, 06:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green
Here's one to think about. I know that we talk about it and in some games it's the person with the ball. That way there's no confusion when the players are on and off

Ultimately, the guy on the ball has to be able to count to five thrice.

walter · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 25, 2001, 09:30am

Kelvin hit the argument from within our board on the head. The book states that the official with the ball should glance at the table to see if any substitute has reported and is ready to enter. If the substitute is ready, the official will beckon him/her to enter (NFHS Officials Manual Section 116). Section 244 defines this as the Lead's responsibility for the second and third of multiple free throws. We have "book guys" on our board that feel since the book says it, that's the way it is. Others argue that it is during pre-game when this should be discussed and handled. The majority say trail in two and three man since they have an unobstructed view of the table. However, we have some rating committee members who have "dinged" people for bringing in subs as the trail, especially in a two man crew. Why, because the proper mechanic by the book says it's the lead's job. I personally can't believe that some people on our board get bogged down in this stuff!!!

stripes · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 25, 2001, 03:27pm

As far as I am concerned, this is always a matter to be discussed in pregame. When I am the R, I will pregame that the T always brings in the subs. This will, of course, require that the partners have good communication (voices, eyes, whatever).

I have yelled, from L, to my partner, at T, that there were subs at the table. I don't think there is anything wrong with this and it is smoother to have the same positioned ref bring them all in.

mick · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 25, 2001, 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes

I have yelled, from L, to my partner, at T, that there were subs at the table. I don't think there is anything wrong with this and it is smoother to have the same positioned ref bring them all in.

I look at my partner and just cock my head toward the table.

stripes · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 26, 2001, 03:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

I look at my partner and just cock my head toward the table.

I have done that too, but many times that has gone not understood or unseen.