NFHS - Umpire Responsible for Clearing bat

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Does anyone have anything in writing from ASA/NFHS/NCAA or any other association stating "Do not remove the bat?"

From the majority of the replies, I think we can agree that there is a liability issue, even if we can't agree which is a greater liability. Since there is such a great liability issue, I think that there must be something in writing.

In writing, no. However, in numerous clinics and schools, we've been instructed by our State UIC to not touch the bat. That's good enough for me.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In writing, no. However, in numerous clinics and schools, we've been instructed by our State UIC to not touch the bat. That's good enough for me.

It troubles me that something that is covered in so many clinics and schools and has such great potential for liability is not in writing.

If I am sued (batter gets injured sliding into a bat) and need to justify why I didn't move a batter, I would like something stronger then, "I was told so at multiple clinics and schools."

I am NOT mocking your answer at all. I also don't doubt that this is what you were taught, as I've heard many people who agree with you.

I just find that type of teaching to be weak. When things aren't in writing, there's always the potential for denial.

I appreciate your honest answer even if I don't agree with the philosophy.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

It troubles me that something that is covered in so many clinics and schools and has such great potential for liability is not in writing.

If I am sued (batter gets injured sliding into a bat) and need to justify why I didn't move a batter, I would like something stronger then, "I was told so at multiple clinics and schools."

I am NOT mocking your answer at all. I also don't doubt that this is what you were taught, as I've heard many people who agree with you.

I just find that type of teaching to be weak. When things aren't in writing, there's always the potential for denial.

I appreciate your honest answer even if I don't agree with the philosophy.

Do you take off your mask when you talk to coaches?

Where does it say whether you should take it off or leave it on?

Do you put your hand on the catcher's back when behind the plate? Why not? Where is that written?

[EsqUmp]

We are talking about liability, not respect. You're avoiding the question. If it is such a huge liability issue, why hasn't ASA written anything about it in its 50 page Safety Awareness Guide? Regardless of which method they prefer, I find it troubling that it hasn't found its way into a 50 page safety manual, rule book or umpire manual.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

If I am sued (batter gets injured sliding into a bat) and need to justify why I didn't move a batter, I would like something stronger then, "I was told so at multiple clinics and schools."

The answer is simple....'the batter should have stepped over the bat, after all, she was no required to slid in the first place'

the defense rests your honor

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

The answer is simple....'the batter should have stepped over the bat, after all, she was no required to slid in the first place'

the defense rests your honor

The court finds in favor of the plaintiff. Pay up.

Again, there is an assumption of risk that typically covers the situation anyway.

[x-tremeump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In writing, no. However, in numerous clinics and schools, we've been instructed by our State UIC to not touch the bat. That's good enough for me.

Jim Evans covers this topic with great training. MOVE THE BAT !!!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by xtreamump

Jim Evans covers this topic with great training. MOVE THE BAT !!!

Let me know when Jim Evans is in charge of umpiring our sport.

[EsqUmp]

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

One can start with the 30 foot difference in the base distance dimensions. Than go from there..... but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

Maximizing the Two-Umpire System on page 4, Section G-05
Clearing the Bat

Let me know what you think of his mechanic when you are done reading about it.

I should you mine, now you show me yours (ASA/NHSF/etc).

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

One can start with the 30 foot difference in the base distance dimensions. Than go from there..... but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

From Jim Evans' Manual

CLEARING THE BAT

1. With runners in scoring position, it may be advisable to remove a bat that may inhibit a runners slide or deflect a thrown ball to the plate. This is STRICTLY A COURTESY and not required mechanics. Your primary concern is to get in position for a play at the plate. If time permits, you may pick up the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field of play. Simply bend over, grab one end of the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field, do not kick or toss the bat in the air because people have been injured this way. Remember the acronym NAP that stands for NECESSARY, AVAILABLE, and POSSIBLE. Ask yourself is it necessary, available, or possible to move the bat.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

From Jim Evans' Manual

CLEARING THE BAT

1. With runners in scoring position, it may be advisable to remove a bat that may inhibit a runners slide or deflect a thrown ball to the plate. This is STRICTLY A COURTESY and not required mechanics. Your primary concern is to get in position for a play at the plate. If time permits, you may pick up the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field of play. Simply bend over, grab one end of the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field, do not kick or toss the bat in the air because people have been injured this way. Remember the acronym NAP that stands for NECESSARY, AVAILABLE, and POSSIBLE. Ask yourself is it necessary, available, or possible to move the bat.

great, so in a different game with different dimensions and timing. The confines of a softball field are also much tighter. Simply put, both are very different games.

If I am sued (batter gets injured sliding into a bat) and need to justify why I didn't move a batter,

Your hero above put it in CAPS. This is the very same theory as why is it not a good idea for some rec and 'beer' leagues who attempt to implement a 'sliding policy'. Because each play is different and each ballpark is different, stating that a procedure should be required (or even recommended) to be followed when it comes to detached equipment is a good idea how now?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Not only is softball the sport of discussion, it is NFHS.

And if you want to be really anal about it, softball more resembles the game Messrs. Cartwright, Spalding, et al misappropriated from our European ancestors. and like the other men of power in this country, they placed a face in front of it, only that face never even acknowledged any connection or knowledge of the game.

And even to that point, it more resembled what we now know as slow-pitch softball than any other game played in this country other than the game of Rounders presently played in North America.

Baseball is a different game on a different field with different equipment and, especially with MLB, different philosophies.

However, your reference to the little ball game explains a lot

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

I have no problem with Jim Evans, and I respect everything that he's done and accomplished.

But his sport is a completely different animal, and they treat their umpires accordingly. If he wants his umpires to clear the bats so that the marquee players making millions of dollars don't get injured, fine, they clear the bats.

My association says otherwise.