...and the benches clear

[7in60]

Men's rec slo pitch league. One batter is crushing balls to left field, mostly foul, but he did get a hold of one for a homer down the line. Noone else in the league hits like this. In the second game of a double header the opposing pitcher tells another player on the team to tell this hitter that they are going to walk him out of safety concerns. The hitter comes up to bat and they send him to first to load the bases with 2 out. He isn't happy and his teammates are chirping that he can place the ball. I go out and tell everyone to be quiet. Next batter hits a grounder to short, throw to second with lots of time, R1 slides hard and late and puts F4 on his back. The benches clear. I am watching for punches, figuring we can finish the game if it's just pushing and yelling. I see two short punches from a defensive player and call the game.

In retrospect, had I ran out, ejected R1 immediately and got him out of there, maybe we finish the game. On the other hand, these are grown men and we shouldn't have to babysit them.

Thoughts?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by 7in60

Men's rec slo pitch league. One batter is crushing balls to left field, mostly foul, but he did get a hold of one for a homer down the line. Noone else in the league hits like this. In the second game of a double header the opposing pitcher tells another player on the team to tell this hitter that they are going to walk him out of safety concerns. The hitter comes up to bat and they send him to first to load the bases with 2 out. He isn't happy and his teammates are chirping that he can place the ball. I go out and tell everyone to be quiet. Next batter hits a grounder to short, throw to second with lots of time, R1 slides hard and late and puts F4 on his back. The benches clear. I am watching for punches, figuring we can finish the game if it's just pushing and yelling. I see two short punches from a defensive player and call the game.

In retrospect, had I ran out, ejected R1 immediately and got him out of there, maybe we finish the game. On the other hand, these are grown men and we shouldn't have to babysit them.

Thoughts?

Game was over when the benches clear.

[NCASAUmp]

My $.02...

These are tough situations to navigate. You want to let the teams police themselves to an extent (they are allegedly adults, after all), but there are times when they prove to be utterly incapable of doing so. You did your best to head off disaster from the start by nipping it in the bud. That's the best thing you can do when teams start jawing at each other, and kudos for that. Too many umpires let things fester until it gets out of control, and then wonder why they end up with a bad situation on their hands.

But once tempers start flaring, it's a fine needle you have to thread. If you HAD run out there and quickly tossed him, he could very easily have decided to make you the target instead, or it could have diffused the situation immediately. Only you can be the judge, but even then, you still don't know how they'll react.

And really, what good would it have done to rush out there and toss R1 immediately? In reality, you're trying to save him from himself by putting yourself in the thick of it, which is not a good position to be in.

Here's what I might have done differently (and forgive me if I appear to be armchair quarterbacking it). When things really start going south, letting the game continue at its current pace may not be the best option. Sometimes, I'll stop the game, pull the coach(es) aside and calmly but firmly say something to this effect:

"Coach, the back and forth has got to stop, and it has to stop right now. I love a good game as much as anyone here, but it's getting a bit too heated for this field. So do me a favor, talk to your guys, let us make the calls and let's have a good game out there, got it?"

They usually get the message, but really, it's completely irrelevant. The game needs that momentary break for guys to just shut the hell up take a few breaths and let go of whatever just happened. It's not so much what I say to the coaches, it's the fact that the game needed that little break.

I'm also open to suggestions myself. This is an all too common problem in men's SP.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Game was over when the benches clear.

I agree with you fully that the game usually needs to be stopped (at least for the night) once benches clear, but just curious to know what call it is you're making here. Forfeit on both sides? Ejecting both teams? Or are you suspending the game to let cooler heads prevail?


I had a similar situation a couple of years ago in a church league post season tourney championship game in which both benches cleared. A few good shoves (those players got tossed), but almost all of the guys were there just to put a stop to it without things escalating. My partner and I stopped the game for about 15 minutes to sort everything out, make the two ejections, let the remaining players calm down, and talk it over with the coaches. We ended up resuming the game, finished it, and even played the "if" game without a hitch.

We only did so because we felt that the remaining players were capable of moving forward without any further outbreaks.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I agree with you fully that the game usually needs to be stopped (at least for the night) once benches clear, but just curious to know what call it is you're making here. Forfeit on both sides? Ejecting both teams? Or are you suspending the game to let cooler heads prevail?

I'm ejecting each player who leaves the dugout or defensive position (except known coaches) for unsportsmanlike conduct. If the benches cleared, I doubt there is going to be anyone left on either team.

If I don't have two teams, it is going to be awfully hard to have a game. If there are not enough players, the game is forfeited. Really don't care what the league administration does with it.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm ejecting each player who leaves the dugout or defensive position (except known coaches)....

In that case, you would have zero ejections. In beer league softball, EVERYONE is a coach.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

In that case, you would have zero ejections. In beer league softball, EVERYONE is a coach.

...AND an umpire.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm ejecting each player who leaves the dugout or defensive position (except known coaches) for unsportsmanlike conduct. If the benches cleared, I doubt there is going to be anyone left on either team.

If I don't have two teams, it is going to be awfully hard to have a game. If there are not enough players, the game is forfeited. Really don't care what the league administration does with it.

I see...

I don't know if I personally would go quite that far. A lot of guys are running out there just to get their guy out of there, not to cause further problems. I'm not about to penalize guys for breaking it up when they themselves haven't done anything aggressive. That's just my personal opinion, everyone handles things differently.

Most rec league teams don't really have official coaches who fully understand their responsibilities to the game and to their players. More often than not, it's just a bunch of guys who just want to play, and they nominate one poor sap to be their "coach." That lack of leadership is how we end up with a dogpile of players when a fight breaks out.

[umpirebob71]

This is precisely why, after 15 years, I haven't done a single men's SP game this year. They've become nothing more than spoiled children masquerading as adults. Between the loaded bats, and the constant whining, I've had enough. I have only done fast pitch this year, and the real chidren have been wonderful all year. The adult SP is just not worth the aggravation...especially at $15.00 a game.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by umpirebob71

This is precisely why, after 15 years, I haven't done a single men's SP game this year. They've become nothing more than spoiled children masquerading as adults. Between the loaded bats, and the constant whining, I've had enough. I have only done fast pitch this year, and the real chidren have been wonderful all year. The adult SP is just not worth the aggravation...especially at $15.00 a game.

We get $25 and $35.

Rita

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Rita C

We get $25 and $35.

Rita

Single umpire or two-umpire system?

[umpirebob71]

Around here, it's $15 for 2 man, $18 for 1 man. It's just not enough for what you have to go thru to get it.

[shagpal]

$35 & $45.
I got a good gig going.
when they whine, I tell them it's adult t-ball and that works to STFU.

Originally Posted by umpirebob71

Around here, it's $15 for 2 man, $18 for 1 man. It's just not enough for what you have to go thru to get it.

[KJUmp]

In my neck of the woods adult rec SP is 2 man @ $27 ea. @ 3 games per night.
Rec dept. provides supervisor/scorer for all games.
4 divisions based on competitive level/ability of teams (low to very high).
Teams all have official coaches all who also play. That along with knowing who
(in addition to the coach) the one or two "team leaders" are goes a long way in helping to keep things under control when the boys get a little hot under the collar.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I see...

I don't know if I personally would go quite that far. A lot of guys are running out there just to get their guy out of there, not to cause further problems. I'm not about to penalize guys for breaking it up when they themselves haven't done anything aggressive. That's just my personal opinion, everyone handles things differently.

It is the COACH'S job to control the players. These are AAs and it doesn't take a village to break up a fight. Gang warfare leads nowhere positive.

Most rec league teams don't really have official coaches who fully understand their responsibilities to the game and to their players. More often than not, it's just a bunch of guys who just want to play, and they nominate one poor sap to be their "coach." That lack of leadership is how we end up with a dogpile of players when a fight breaks out.

Not my problem. I'm there to officiate A SOFTBALL GAME, nothing more. And there is no place for this type of bull in any game, let alone what is supposed to be a recreational activity.