Look back rule clarification

[shipwreck]

I need to be a little clearer. Right before that pitch, the PU announced that it was 2-2. After the next pitch came in making it actually 3-2, and the batter runner took off for first and runner on second headed for second. The PU held up the 3-2 count toward me, confirming in his head that that was truly the count, and I held up the same count. By the time all this transpired, the runners were on their perspective bases. So with this extra information what do we have? I see 3 possible. 1. Look back rule violation. 2. Leave runner at second with a steal and bring batter back. 3. Bring both batter and runner back. What do you all think? Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I need to be a little clearer. Right before that pitch, the PU announced that it was 2-2. After the next pitch came in making it actually 3-2, and the batter runner took off for first and runner on second headed for second. The PU held up the 3-2 count toward me, confirming in his head that that was truly the count, and I held up the same count. By the time all this transpired, the runners were on their perspective bases. So with this extra information what do we have? I see 3 possible. 1. Look back rule violation. 2. Leave runner at second with a steal and bring batter back. 3. Bring both batter and runner back. What do you all think? Dave

With that clarification, I'll take what's behind Door #1

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I need to be a little clearer. Right before that pitch, the PU announced that it was 2-2. After the next pitch came in making it actually 3-2, and the batter runner took off for first and runner on second headed for second. The PU held up the 3-2 count toward me, confirming in his head that that was truly the count, and I held up the same count. By the time all this transpired, the runners were on their perspective bases. So with this extra information what do we have? I see 3 possible. 1. Look back rule violation. 2. Leave runner at second with a steal and bring batter back. 3. Bring both batter and runner back. What do you all think? Dave

Not 3.
Sounding more like 1 to me... but I could see 2 - depends on when and if you feel the ball was killed to bring the batter back

Somehow I don't think you can get a final answer to what happened in the past. What matters is you have some information should something like this ever happen again....

[LIUmp]

With that clarification, I can clearly see the LBR violation.

[clevbrown]

My original thought was I was going to let her go as long as she continued back to first without stopping. However, after reading the ASA rule book...

ASA 8.7.T.2 LBR states "Once the runner stops at a base for any reason, the runner will be declared out if leaving the base"

Sounds like "Out" to me.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I need to be a little clearer. Right before that pitch, the PU announced that it was 2-2. After the next pitch came in making it actually 3-2, and the batter runner took off for first and runner on second headed for second. The PU held up the 3-2 count toward me, confirming in his head that that was truly the count, and I held up the same count. By the time all this transpired, the runners were on their perspective bases. So with this extra information what do we have? I see 3 possible. 1. Look back rule violation. 2. Leave runner at second with a steal and bring batter back. 3. Bring both batter and runner back. What do you all think? Dave

You have a LBR. (Was this 10U? 14U? College? You mention college rules - if THAT old you definitely have LBR.)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

... if THAT old you definitely have LBR.)

If not just out on the DMR rule!

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You have a LBR. (Was this 10U? 14U? College? You mention college rules - if THAT old you definitely have LBR.)

Not very good college ball, but never the less, college. Dave

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Not very good college ball, but never the less, college. Dave

Absotively, Posilutely 150% LBR. No question at all.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Absotively, Posilutely 150% LBR. No question at all.

OK, along those same lines. As umpires, should we ever let it get that far? When as umpires we see the BR take off for first and the other runner take off for second, do we kill it right there knowing there is confusion, or do we keep it live and rule as need be? I am afraid if we kill it, some OC could argue his runner was stealing second and we killed it, even though in this case we know she wasn't stealing. Dave

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

....or do we keep it live and rule as need be?...

That.

[Tex]

This situation has happened to me a few times before. Had this happened during the state tournament. After all base runners have stopped at their bases and before the coaches started yelling and the runners start moving, I called time and conferred with the base umpire, to be certain that my count was correct. The batter came back to finish her time at bat and the runner at 2nd base stays there (stolen base).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

OK, along those same lines. As umpires, should we ever let it get that far? When as umpires we see the BR take off for first and the other runner take off for second, do we kill it right there knowing there is confusion, or do we keep it live and rule as need be? I am afraid if we kill it, some OC could argue his runner was stealing second and we killed it, even though in this case we know she wasn't stealing. Dave

You have to keep it live and rule as need be in NCAA. If you kill that live play in NCAA, you will be wearing a coach. That violates rule 15-10.b.1, etc, that the umpire shall NOT suspend play while ANY play is in progress, and (b.4) at the request of players or coaches until ALL action in progress is completed.

Restating the count is appropriate; then stand back and let them play the game. If the defense knows to get the out at second, they get it; if the defense lets the runner "steal" second, that is their fault. If the runner steps off the base during live play and the ball in the circle, call the LBR out.

The NCAA also doesn't make the ball dead, necessarily, when an umpire handles "other" duties. Rule 15-10.a.2 only states that an umpire "MAY" suspend play to perform other duties not directly connected with the calling of plays. Only if the umpire called "time" would play be suspended; and that would be in error, according to 15-10.b.1.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

OK, along those same lines. As umpires, should we ever let it get that far? When as umpires we see the BR take off for first and the other runner take off for second, do we kill it right there knowing there is confusion, or do we keep it live and rule as need be? I am afraid if we kill it, some OC could argue his runner was stealing second and we killed it, even though in this case we know she wasn't stealing. Dave

You answered your own question. If we kill it, the OC could argue all sorts of things, and he'd be right. Unless you have a reason to call a dead ball, don't. Some teams TRY to confuse the opponent (within the rules), and this is not illegal. (And you DON'T know she wasn't stealing. You think it, and you may be right, but you don't KNOW it).

Keep the play live, and rule on what you see.

[Tex]

I was referring to FED rules, sorry.