Look back rule clarification

[shipwreck]

Ok, I know this has been hashed out many times but I forget what the concensus was on this. NCAA rules, or probably most rulesets. Runner on first, 2-2 count on batter. Ball comes in for 3-2 count. Batter thinks it is ball 4 and starts to trot down to first. Runner on first then goes to second with the catcher throwing the ball back to the pitcher in the circle. Runners now standing on first and second. PU checks with me that it is 3-2 count and I verify it is. Batter goes back to home and girl on second takes 2 steps back toward first with ball controlled by the pitcher in the circle, not making a play on her. Is this in fact a look back violation? Dave

[RKBUmp]

If the pitcher is in control of the ball in the circle and a runner leaves a base, it is a look back violation, runner is out. In your play, the runner at 1st essentially stole 2nd base, and then left it voluntarily after the ball was in the circle.

[tcannizzo]

I dunno, could this not be considered a no violation, as officials are awarding, um un-awarding bases, which is only done while ball is dead?

[LIUmp]

I don't know if I would call the look back violation as it seems as if an umpire error (batter runner going to first, then calling her back because her turn at bat is not over) has put the offensive team in jeopardy.

However, if that lead runner is going back and is tagged out, then I would call her out. She stole second base and was never told to go back, so her going back is her error. But if she goes all the way back to first with no play, then I'd say dumb move runner AND dumb move fielders.

This could have been avoided by the plate umpire being aware of the count and being proactive.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

I don't know if I would call the look back violation as it seems as if an umpire error (batter runner going to first, then calling her back because her turn at bat is not over) has put the offensive team in jeopardy. .

Was it the umpire who sent the BR to first? Did the umpire announce 4 Balls?
Did the umpire send the runner back to first?

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

However, if that lead runner is going back and is tagged out, then I would call her out. She stole second base and was never told to go back, so her going back is her error. But if she goes all the way back to first with no play, then I'd say dumb move runner AND dumb move fielders.

Seems a contradiction to me... if you are absolving the runnner due to what you perceive as "umpire error" in the first situation, why would you leave her in jeapordy here? I don't see how you pick one and not the other.

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

This could have been avoided by the plate umpire being aware of the count and being proactive.

I don't disagree with that - As PU, I would clearly announce the 3-2 count when it became clear BR was heading to first.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Was it the umpire who sent the BR to first? Did the umpire announce 4 Balls?
Did the umpire send the runner back to first?



Seems a contradiction to me... if you are absolving the runnner due to what you perceive as "umpire error" in the first situation, why would you leave her in jeapordy here? I don't see how you pick one and not the other.




I don't disagree with that - As PU, I would clearly announce the 3-2 count when it became clear BR was heading to first.

I would hope the umpire does NOT send her back to first. I'm referring to the error by the umpire in what the batter runner did. If the umpire were PROACTIVE in the first place, and did their job, then we wouldn't have had the mess in the first place. Now that we do, when the umpire says, "batter, it's 3 balls, two strikes. Come back to the plate." and both runners start retreating, I don't think it is in the spirit of the rule to call the look back violation on the runner retreating to first. However, if the defense makes a play on her, and tags her out, the out would stand.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my first post.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

I don't know if I would call the look back violation as it seems as if an umpire error (batter runner going to first, then calling her back because her turn at bat is not over) has put the offensive team in jeopardy.

However, if that lead runner is going back and is tagged out, then I would call her out. She stole second base and was never told to go back, so her going back is her error. But if she goes all the way back to first with no play, then I'd say dumb move runner AND dumb move fielders.

This could have been avoided by the plate umpire being aware of the count and being proactive.

I can see the logic in calling her out. I can see the logic in saying the ball is dead... but there is no logic in your suggestion. Either the ball is live and she's out when she steps off 2nd, or the ball is dead and she stays. There's no in between as you're suggesting.