Fed pitching question

[DaveASA/FED]

From March 2008 Plays and Clarifications on the ASA website.

PLAY: R1 on 1B and no count on B2. F1 commits an illegal pitch, by bringing the hands together a second time, which is called by the plate umpire, but continues the pitch. Just before releasing the ball R1 leaves the base before the release of the pitch. In (a) B1 does not swing at the pitch. In (b) B1 swings at the pitch and gets a base hit. In (c) R1 is on 1B and R2 is on 3B at the start of the play.

RULING: The illegal pitch happened when the pitcher brought their hands together, paused, the hands separated to begin the pitch, then the hands came back together prior to the release of the pitch. In (a) and (b) the ball became dead when R1 left 1B before the pitch was released. The fact that the batter did not swing in (a) or got a hit in (b) is irrelevant because the ball became dead when R1 left 1B early. Enforce both the leaving early and illegal pitch infractions, The Ball is dead and R1 is out and a ball is awarded to B2. In (c) The plate umpire should call illegal pitch when it occurs and then “dead ball” when R1 leaves 1B too soon. R1 is out, R2 is awarded home and B2 is awarded a ball in the count.

Rule 8, Section 7-S, Effect, Rule 6, Section 3-B, Effect-A Illegal Pitch

This has the runner leaving early added into it, and the IP was for double touching not stepping onto the pitching plate with the hands together, but I would use this in the same manner to support calling the IP when it occurs then allowing the pitcher to throw the pitch. If they do not throw the pitch then kill it and make the award, as has already been discussed.

I know this is an ASA interpretation and the OP was dealing with FED but I would bet FED is on the same page.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

From March 2008 Plays and Clarifications on the ASA website.

PLAY: R1 on 1B and no count on B2. F1 commits an illegal pitch, by bringing the hands together a second time, which is called by the plate umpire, but continues the pitch. Just before releasing the ball R1 leaves the base before the release of the pitch. In (a) B1 does not swing at the pitch. In (b) B1 swings at the pitch and gets a base hit. In (c) R1 is on 1B and R2 is on 3B at the start of the play.

RULING: The illegal pitch happened when the pitcher brought their hands together, paused, the hands separated to begin the pitch, then the hands came back together prior to the release of the pitch. In (a) and (b) the ball became dead when R1 left 1B before the pitch was released. The fact that the batter did not swing in (a) or got a hit in (b) is irrelevant because the ball became dead when R1 left 1B early. Enforce both the leaving early and illegal pitch infractions, The Ball is dead and R1 is out and a ball is awarded to B2. In (c) The plate umpire should call illegal pitch when it occurs and then “dead ball” when R1 leaves 1B too soon. R1 is out, R2 is awarded home and B2 is awarded a ball in the count.

Rule 8, Section 7-S, Effect, Rule 6, Section 3-B, Effect-A Illegal Pitch

This has the runner leaving early added into it, and the IP was for double touching not stepping onto the pitching plate with the hands together, but I would use this in the same manner to support calling the IP when it occurs then allowing the pitcher to throw the pitch. If they do not throw the pitch then kill it and make the award, as has already been discussed.

I know this is an ASA interpretation and the OP was dealing with FED but I would bet FED is on the same page.

Wrong violation. The OP here pertains to a pitcher not having the hands separated when stepping on the PP (6.1.a), NFHS does not.

Double touch or stepping off are other subjects.

[Little Jimmy]

I'll beat this dead horse one more time. My only point/question in the whole thing is this: what is the ruling Fed wants? I don't have a pipeline to the head honchos so I need to go my normal route (post here, read, ask the locals, ask the state interpreter). It either is an immediate dead ball or it's a delayed dead ball, but not take your choice. One or the other. And I would agree with Irish that a ball hit over the fence would be a rough one to hang your hat on and say the pitch wasn't allowed to begin with. All the more reason in knowing when Fed wants the illegality called:immediately (dead ball with immediate penalty) or after the play (delayed dead ball with coach choosing play or penalty).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

I'll beat this dead horse one more time. My only point/question in the whole thing is this: what is the ruling Fed wants? I don't have a pipeline to the head honchos so I need to go my normal route (post here, read, ask the locals, ask the state interpreter). It either is an immediate dead ball or it's a delayed dead ball, but not take your choice. One or the other. And I would agree with Irish that a ball hit over the fence would be a rough one to hang your hat on and say the pitch wasn't allowed to begin with. All the more reason in knowing when Fed wants the illegality called:immediately (dead ball with immediate penalty) or after the play (delayed dead ball with coach choosing play or penalty).

I think you have missed the several voices speaking to an option you have not stated. The pitch is called illegal as soon as it becomes illegal; that part is clear in absolutely EVERY version of softball that exists. Since NFHS has declared this cannot be corrected, you call it "Illegal" as soon as she steps on the pitching plate with hands together. It is NEVER called illegal AFTER there is a play; it is only called "dead" after a play.

If called illegal immediately, as required, it is almost a no-brainer that there won't be a following pitch. I suspect THAT is the point of the DE interpretor, because there is absolutely no rules basis to declare the ball dead immediately in any violation of Articles 6-1. In fact, the only illegal pitch that clearly spells out "dead ball immediately" is a violation of 6-2-2, applying a substance to the ball, or failing to wipe the hand before contacting the ball after licking the fingers.

So, in absence of any definitive ruling that clearly supercedes 5-1-2-a, that ALL illegal pitches are delayed dead balls (like there is for 6-2-2), then ALL OTHER illegal pitches are delayed dead balls.

Again, the proper mechanic is call it immediately when it becomes illegal. When the pitcher steps on the pitching plate with hands together, verbalize "Illegal Pitch", and hold out the delayed dead ball signal. If, as will happen 99.9% of the time, the pitcher stops in her tracks, then declare "Dead Ball", and announce the penalty. In the the 0.1% of the time where she goes ahead a throws a pitch anyway, wait until all play ends, and give the offensive coach the option.

While you may consider this rule similar to 6-2-2, there is nothing in the NFHS rulebook or casebook that says to treat this differently than every other illegal pitch (other than 6-2-2).

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I think you have missed the several voices speaking to an option you have not stated. The pitch is called illegal as soon as it becomes illegal; that part is clear in absolutely EVERY version of softball that exists. Since NFHS has declared this cannot be corrected, you call it "Illegal" as soon as she steps on the pitching plate with hands together. It is NEVER called illegal AFTER there is a play; it is only called "dead" after a play.

If called illegal immediately, as required, it is almost a no-brainer that there won't be a following pitch. I suspect THAT is the point of the DE interpretor, because there is absolutely no rules basis to declare the ball dead immediately in any violation of Articles 6-1. In fact, the only illegal pitch that clearly spells out "dead ball immediately" is a violation of 6-2-2, applying a substance to the ball, or failing to wipe the hand before contacting the ball after licking the fingers.

So, in absence of any definitive ruling that clearly supercedes 5-1-2-a, that ALL illegal pitches are delayed dead balls (like there is for 6-2-2), then ALL OTHER illegal pitches are delayed dead balls.

Again, the proper mechanic is call it immediately when it becomes illegal. When the pitcher steps on the pitching plate with hands together, verbalize "Illegal Pitch", and hold out the delayed dead ball signal. If, as will happen 99.9% of the time, the pitcher stops in her tracks, then declare "Dead Ball", and announce the penalty. In the the 0.1% of the time where she goes ahead a throws a pitch anyway, wait until all play ends, and give the offensive coach the option.

While you may consider this rule similar to 6-2-2, there is nothing in the NFHS rulebook or casebook that says to treat this differently than every other illegal pitch (other than 6-2-2).

Violations of 6-2-7,8,9 are immediate dead balls as well.