Fed pitching question

[Little Jimmy]

Thanks for all the replys. My day has been crazy busy and this is the first time I've had a chance to respond. As stated by some, Fed casebook 6.1.1 is cut and dry..."F1's hands shall be apart when she steps onto the pitcher's plate. Therefore, this is an illegal pitch." There seems to be no ifs, ands or buts about it. But there is a difference between the clarity of the casebook and the wording of the rulebook. I'm not thinking that delayed dead ball works here. If it is illegal and there is no way to make it legal (as per Fed), then why let thie pitch be delivered? Spit on the ball...dead ball, no pitch permitted . Take a nail file out of her pants and jab the ball...dead ball, no pitch permitted. It seeems like Fed is saying this infraction is like that, even though they aren't clear rulebook wise.

I think I'll pose the question to my state interpreter and see if he can get some info at the national office.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Thanks for all the replys. My day has been crazy busy and this is the first time I've had a chance to respond. As stated by some, Fed casebook 6.1.1 is cut and dry..."F1's hands shall be apart when she steps onto the pitcher's plate. Therefore, this is an illegal pitch." There seems to be no ifs, ands or buts about it. But there is a difference between the clarity of the casebook and the wording of the rulebook. I'm not thinking that delayed dead ball works here. If it is illegal and there is no way to make it legal (as per Fed), then why let thie pitch be delivered? Spit on the ball...dead ball, no pitch permitted . Take a nail file out of her pants and jab the ball...dead ball, no pitch permitted. It seeems like Fed is saying this infraction is like that, even though they aren't clear rulebook wise.

I think I'll pose the question to my state interpreter and see if he can get some info at the national office.

I think this is serious overkill here.

It is a DDB. If the pitcher stops at that point and there is no pitch imminent, kill it and apply the appropriate rule.

But if the pitcher doesn't stop and continues with a pitch, are you prepared to tell the batter that the ball she just hit over the fence doesn't count because you don't believe the pitch should be allowed?

There are reasons an IP is a DDB and this is one of them.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I think this is serious overkill here.

It is a DDB. If the pitcher stops at that point and there is no pitch imminent, kill it and apply the appropriate rule.

But if the pitcher doesn't stop and continues with a pitch, are you prepared to tell the batter that the ball she just hit over the fence doesn't count because you don't believe the pitch should be allowed?

There are reasons an IP is a DDB and this is one of them.

Even though I logically and philosophically agree, the official word for NFHS in Delaware is Immediate DB and the pitch is dead regardless of thrown or not, along with the other Article 1 infractions.

The ASA book does not say the pitcher can remove herself, so it would seem ths same applies, unless you are decreeing otherwise.

[RKBUmp]

Under the FED dead ball table it does say immediate dead ball, "IF NOT RELEASED". How can the pitch ever be released if the umpire kills the play the moment the pitcher steps on the pitching plate?

[DaveASA/FED]

Well this is a case of different interps your "expert" says kill it once it's illegal, which is only specifically stated in the rule book under a few conditions, this is not one of them. The "expert" I have talked to says call the illegal pitch signal DDB, if pitcher throws let it be thrown, (as Irish states why take the chance for the offense take the free shot at the ball?) if not then kill it and award accordingly.

[DaveASA/FED]

From March 2008 Plays and Clarifications on the ASA website.

PLAY: R1 on 1B and no count on B2. F1 commits an illegal pitch, by bringing the hands together a second time, which is called by the plate umpire, but continues the pitch. Just before releasing the ball R1 leaves the base before the release of the pitch. In (a) B1 does not swing at the pitch. In (b) B1 swings at the pitch and gets a base hit. In (c) R1 is on 1B and R2 is on 3B at the start of the play.

RULING: The illegal pitch happened when the pitcher brought their hands together, paused, the hands separated to begin the pitch, then the hands came back together prior to the release of the pitch. In (a) and (b) the ball became dead when R1 left 1B before the pitch was released. The fact that the batter did not swing in (a) or got a hit in (b) is irrelevant because the ball became dead when R1 left 1B early. Enforce both the leaving early and illegal pitch infractions, The Ball is dead and R1 is out and a ball is awarded to B2. In (c) The plate umpire should call illegal pitch when it occurs and then “dead ball” when R1 leaves 1B too soon. R1 is out, R2 is awarded home and B2 is awarded a ball in the count.

Rule 8, Section 7-S, Effect, Rule 6, Section 3-B, Effect-A Illegal Pitch

This has the runner leaving early added into it, and the IP was for double touching not stepping onto the pitching plate with the hands together, but I would use this in the same manner to support calling the IP when it occurs then allowing the pitcher to throw the pitch. If they do not throw the pitch then kill it and make the award, as has already been discussed.

I know this is an ASA interpretation and the OP was dealing with FED but I would bet FED is on the same page.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

From March 2008 Plays and Clarifications on the ASA website.

PLAY: R1 on 1B and no count on B2. F1 commits an illegal pitch, by bringing the hands together a second time, which is called by the plate umpire, but continues the pitch. Just before releasing the ball R1 leaves the base before the release of the pitch. In (a) B1 does not swing at the pitch. In (b) B1 swings at the pitch and gets a base hit. In (c) R1 is on 1B and R2 is on 3B at the start of the play.

RULING: The illegal pitch happened when the pitcher brought their hands together, paused, the hands separated to begin the pitch, then the hands came back together prior to the release of the pitch. In (a) and (b) the ball became dead when R1 left 1B before the pitch was released. The fact that the batter did not swing in (a) or got a hit in (b) is irrelevant because the ball became dead when R1 left 1B early. Enforce both the leaving early and illegal pitch infractions, The Ball is dead and R1 is out and a ball is awarded to B2. In (c) The plate umpire should call illegal pitch when it occurs and then “dead ball” when R1 leaves 1B too soon. R1 is out, R2 is awarded home and B2 is awarded a ball in the count.

Rule 8, Section 7-S, Effect, Rule 6, Section 3-B, Effect-A Illegal Pitch

This has the runner leaving early added into it, and the IP was for double touching not stepping onto the pitching plate with the hands together, but I would use this in the same manner to support calling the IP when it occurs then allowing the pitcher to throw the pitch. If they do not throw the pitch then kill it and make the award, as has already been discussed.

I know this is an ASA interpretation and the OP was dealing with FED but I would bet FED is on the same page.

Wrong violation. The OP here pertains to a pitcher not having the hands separated when stepping on the PP (6.1.a), NFHS does not.

Double touch or stepping off are other subjects.