Interference?

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

And please don't hold your arm out until they reach second. Mechanically wrong and you look silly.

mbcrowder:

Speaking ASA, what is the proper mechanic?

Last summer, we had a situation where a B/R was obstructed by F3 (F3 had his back to the bag and never saw where the BR was) rounding first and the umpire neither signaled nor verbalized obstruction. I didn't even know if he had even seen the OBS until after play ended and he told F3 to pay attention and stay out of the way when there is no play at first.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

mbcrowder:

Speaking ASA, what is the proper mechanic?

Last summer, we had a situation where a B/R was obstructed by F3 (F3 had his back to the bag and never saw where the BR was) rounding first and the umpire neither signaled nor verbalized obstruction. I didn't even know if he had even seen the OBS until he told F3 to pay attention and stay out of the way when there is no play at first.

That's worse. I guess given the two choices, running around with your arm sticking out looking silly is superior to not verbalizing or signaling!

And probably slightly better than one partner I worked with for the first time who yelled "obstruction at first!!!!" so loud that everyone - fielders, runners, coaches, even me - stopped what they were doing to see what he was yelling about.

Anyway... verbalize, and signal for long enough that others have a chance to see it.

There are a LOT of umpires out there who seem to think (or worse ... teach) that you should hold your arm out until the moment the runner gets to the base you were going to protect them to (even if that means all the way from first to home). This is wrong. 2 seconds or so is probably plenty.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Zepp

ASA Rule citation to back that up?

8.7.J.4. It must be intentional for the umpire to rule INT.

It is NOT obstruction because the fielder is attempting to field a batted ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That's worse. I guess given the two choices, running around with your arm sticking out looking silly is superior to not verbalizing or signaling!

And probably slightly better than one partner I worked with for the first time who yelled "obstruction at first!!!!" so loud that everyone - fielders, runners, coaches, even me - stopped what they were doing to see what he was yelling about.

Anyway... verbalize, and signal for long enough that others have a chance to see it.

There are a LOT of umpires out there who seem to think (or worse ... teach) that you should hold your arm out until the moment the runner gets to the base you were going to protect them to (even if that means all the way from first to home). This is wrong. 2 seconds or so is probably plenty.

There is nothing that says it must be dropped, but it doesn't have to be held throughout the play. Personally, if there is a possibility that the runner may run out of protection. Then again, I don't "run" around like an idiot. My steps across the field are slow and very calculated. If I need to kick it up, yeah, I'm not running around with my arm out.

What I find and have experienced as problematic is the "verbal" instruction. I have never had a situation where the verbal did not distract the players. But being the good guy, I verbalize in a very low voice.

IMO, verbalizing makes it more likely that the players and coaches will begin playing to the call, not the game in front of them.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Is honesty a virtue?

OK, being honest, I have never verbalized obstruction in any softball game since I started in 1972. I have stated, if asked, that "you just didn't hear me" the VERY few times I have been asked.

IMO, verbalization is a mechanic inherited from baseball (where they HOPE to stop play, since it makes awards easier) that should have been, but just never was dropped from softball. It serves no purpose at all, since base coaches can see the signal (if they are paying attention), and should be coaching to the play, not our signal or verbalization.

[Far far away ..]

Originally Posted by Zepp

Rule 8-5-B-4 - When a runner, while advancing or returning to a base
a) is obstructed by a fielder who neither has the ball or
b) is attempting to field a batted or thrown ball or
c) when a fielder fakes a tag w/o the ball

I have OBS as the fielder is en route to field the ball, not in the act of fielding it.

By the way, the OBS rule supplement is unhelpful in regard to the red text above, as it omits the thrown ball part of the rule.

I had used the RS recently to revise my INT and OBS understandings and not long after ruled a sitch incorrectly where a fielder was waiting on a thrown ball while on the base path when collided with by a runner.

And yes, I know, the supplement is just a supplement and the rules are where the rules are .

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Is honesty a virtue?

OK, being honest, I have never verbalized obstruction in any softball game since I started in 1972. I have stated, if asked, that "you just didn't hear me" the VERY few times I have been asked.

IMO, verbalization is a mechanic inherited from baseball (where they HOPE to stop play, since it makes awards easier) that should have been, but just never was dropped from softball. It serves no purpose at all, since base coaches can see the signal (if they are paying attention), and should be coaching to the play, not our signal or verbalization.

I verbalized obstruction once. Everyone stopped, looked at me, and the runner just walked back to second base. He could have walked all the way home, and I'll bet you no one would have stopped him. It only confused the players.

I won't do that again.

[Far far away ..]

Originally Posted by Far far away ..

I had used the RS recently to revise my INT and OBS understandings and not long after ruled a sitch incorrectly where a fielder was waiting on a thrown ball while on the base path when collided with by a runner.

Just to further my confusion on this, the definition of OBS in rule 1 matches the description in the supplement (i.e. fielding a thrown ball is not mentioned) but differs from 8.5.B.4 ("or thrown ball"). Do we have two rules disagreeing here and which is the correct one to apply?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

There is nothing that says it must be dropped, but it doesn't have to be held throughout the play. Personally, if there is a possibility that the runner may run out of protection. Then again, I don't "run" around like an idiot. My steps across the field are slow and very calculated. If I need to kick it up, yeah, I'm not running around with my arm out.

What I find and have experienced as problematic is the "verbal" instruction. I have never had a situation where the verbal did not distract the players. But being the good guy, I verbalize in a very low voice.

IMO, verbalizing makes it more likely that the players and coaches will begin playing to the call, not the game in front of them.

I agree wholeheartedly with the last two paragraphs.

Re: the first. If you are BU and have OBS at 1st base on an obvious 4-base hit, you really hold the arm up the whole time until she scores? We've been told many many times that you hold it up long enough for people to see you had a call.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Is honesty a virtue?

OK, being honest, I have never verbalized obstruction in any softball game since I started in 1972. I have stated, if asked, that "you just didn't hear me" the VERY few times I have been asked.

IMO, verbalization is a mechanic inherited from baseball (where they HOPE to stop play, since it makes awards easier) that should have been, but just never was dropped from softball. It serves no purpose at all, since base coaches can see the signal (if they are paying attention), and should be coaching to the play, not our signal or verbalization.

+1

(I verbalize, but if anyone can hear me it's the fielder that did it - and that's iffy at best)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I agree wholeheartedly with the last two paragraphs.

Re: the first. If you are BU and have OBS at 1st base on an obvious 4-base hit, you really hold the arm up the whole time until she scores? We've been told many many times that you hold it up long enough for people to see you had a call.

Possibly, but then again, I'm not running around and very likely just taking a few steps around the pitcher's plate.

It isn't a problem and it definitely gives the offense an idea of what is going on. After all, just because you think it should have been seen doesn't mean it is.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Possibly, but then again, I'm not running around and very likely just taking a few steps around the pitcher's plate.

It isn't a problem and it definitely gives the offense an idea of what is going on. After all, just because you think it should have been seen doesn't mean it is.

Thanks. I knew from previous discussion that most umpires prefer not to verbalize since it tends to make players freeze up, but it would be nice to see a signal even if for a couple of seconds.

IrishMafia: How well, I know. We had what appeared to be OBS in our championship game this year where R1 on second went to advance to third on a 5-3 groundout and was blocked by F6 who had his back to R1's advance. On what ended up being a bang-bang play at third, the umpire calls R1 out.

After the game I asked R1 why there was no obstruction called and he said that the umpire never saw it since he was apparently still turned towards first base when OBS occurred. But without umpires signalling it consistently, you never know what is or isn't seen as a player or base coach.