Interference?

[Zepp]

Saw this play on Sportscenter (Padres vs Giants game on 8/13/10) the other day and it got me thinking about if this same play were in an ASA softball game and what the appropriate call would be.

Umps sure call on moot protest was right | MLB.com: News

Towards the end of the video are some better angles on the play and also their first mention of a "deflected ball."

The MLB rule states nothing about a deflected ball scenario unlike ASA were the interference has to be intentional by the runner after a deflected batted ball. (ASA Rule 8-7-J-4)

Just looking for some opinions (ASA ruleset) on whether it's a
1) no call (play on)
2) obstruction (delayed dead ball signal given, protect runner to 2nd base)
3) interference (dead ball - runner is out)

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Zepp

Saw this play on Sportscenter (Padres vs Giants game on 8/13/10) the other day and it got me thinking about if this same play were in an ASA softball game and what the appropriate call would be.

Umps sure call on moot protest was right | MLB.com: News

Towards the end of the video are some better angles on the play and also their first mention of a "deflected ball."

The MLB rule states nothing about a deflected ball scenario unlike ASA were the interference has to be intentional by the runner after a deflected batted ball. (ASA Rule 8-7-J-4)

Just looking for some opinions (ASA ruleset) on whether it's a
1) no call (play on)
2) obstruction (delayed dead ball signal given until runner reaches 2nd)
3) interference (dead ball - runner is out)

How could there possibly have been obstruction on that play?

[MD Longhorn]

And please don't hold your arm out until they reach second. Mechanically wrong and you look silly.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

And please don't hold your arm out until they reach second. Mechanically wrong and you look silly.

mbcrowder:

Speaking ASA, what is the proper mechanic?

Last summer, we had a situation where a B/R was obstructed by F3 (F3 had his back to the bag and never saw where the BR was) rounding first and the umpire neither signaled nor verbalized obstruction. I didn't even know if he had even seen the OBS until after play ended and he told F3 to pay attention and stay out of the way when there is no play at first.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

mbcrowder:

Speaking ASA, what is the proper mechanic?

Last summer, we had a situation where a B/R was obstructed by F3 (F3 had his back to the bag and never saw where the BR was) rounding first and the umpire neither signaled nor verbalized obstruction. I didn't even know if he had even seen the OBS until he told F3 to pay attention and stay out of the way when there is no play at first.

That's worse. I guess given the two choices, running around with your arm sticking out looking silly is superior to not verbalizing or signaling!

And probably slightly better than one partner I worked with for the first time who yelled "obstruction at first!!!!" so loud that everyone - fielders, runners, coaches, even me - stopped what they were doing to see what he was yelling about.

Anyway... verbalize, and signal for long enough that others have a chance to see it.

There are a LOT of umpires out there who seem to think (or worse ... teach) that you should hold your arm out until the moment the runner gets to the base you were going to protect them to (even if that means all the way from first to home). This is wrong. 2 seconds or so is probably plenty.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That's worse. I guess given the two choices, running around with your arm sticking out looking silly is superior to not verbalizing or signaling!

And probably slightly better than one partner I worked with for the first time who yelled "obstruction at first!!!!" so loud that everyone - fielders, runners, coaches, even me - stopped what they were doing to see what he was yelling about.

Anyway... verbalize, and signal for long enough that others have a chance to see it.

There are a LOT of umpires out there who seem to think (or worse ... teach) that you should hold your arm out until the moment the runner gets to the base you were going to protect them to (even if that means all the way from first to home). This is wrong. 2 seconds or so is probably plenty.

There is nothing that says it must be dropped, but it doesn't have to be held throughout the play. Personally, if there is a possibility that the runner may run out of protection. Then again, I don't "run" around like an idiot. My steps across the field are slow and very calculated. If I need to kick it up, yeah, I'm not running around with my arm out.

What I find and have experienced as problematic is the "verbal" instruction. I have never had a situation where the verbal did not distract the players. But being the good guy, I verbalize in a very low voice.

IMO, verbalizing makes it more likely that the players and coaches will begin playing to the call, not the game in front of them.

[Zepp]

Is a deflected batted ball treated the same as a batted ball?
I would have to say no.

If they were the same then why have it as a separate rule under the interference section (rule 8-7-J)
and not include it with a batted ball in the obstruction rule (8-5-B-4)

Rule 8-5-B-4 - When a runner, while advancing or returning to a base
a) is obstructed by a fielder who neither has the ball or
b) is attempting to field a batted or thrown ball or
c) when a fielder fakes a tag w/o the ball

Therefore, the fielder does not have possession of the ball, is not fielding a batted ball (deflected - yes, batted - no) and is hindering the progress of the runner. Obstruction?

[MD Longhorn]

I can't run the video ... who did it deflect off of?

[Zepp]

Pitcher

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Zepp

Pitcher

Kind of changes everything, doesn't it?

Interference.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Zepp

Is a deflected batted ball treated the same as a batted ball?
I would have to say no.

If they were the same then why have it as a separate rule under the interference section (rule 8-7-J)
and not include it with a batted ball in the obstruction rule (8-5-B-4)

Rule 8-5-B-4 - When a runner, while advancing or returning to a base
a) is obstructed by a fielder who neither has the ball or
b) is attempting to field a batted or thrown ball or
c) when a fielder fakes a tag w/o the ball

Therefore, the fielder does not have possession of the ball, is not fielding a batted ball (deflected - yes, batted - no) and is hindering the progress of the runner. Obstruction?

So as the umpire you're going to make an obstruction call on that play, based on a strict literal interpretation of the rule, and with no regard for what you saw take place on the video of the play?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

So as the umpire you're going to make an obstruction call on that play, based on a strict literal interpretation of the rule, and with no regard for what you saw take place on the video of the play?

KJ, I can't see it - what happened in the video, and what makes you say it's not OBS?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

KJ, I can't see it - what happened in the video, and what makes you say it's not OBS?

mb...
Anyway you can run it by going directly to the Padres team site thru the MLB website? It's there, click on "More News" on the Padre site and you'll see the headline.
KJ

[Far far away ..]

Originally Posted by Zepp

Rule 8-5-B-4 - When a runner, while advancing or returning to a base
a) is obstructed by a fielder who neither has the ball or
b) is attempting to field a batted or thrown ball or
c) when a fielder fakes a tag w/o the ball

I have OBS as the fielder is en route to field the ball, not in the act of fielding it.

By the way, the OBS rule supplement is unhelpful in regard to the red text above, as it omits the thrown ball part of the rule.

I had used the RS recently to revise my INT and OBS understandings and not long after ruled a sitch incorrectly where a fielder was waiting on a thrown ball while on the base path when collided with by a runner.

And yes, I know, the supplement is just a supplement and the rules are where the rules are .

[Far far away ..]

Originally Posted by Far far away ..

I had used the RS recently to revise my INT and OBS understandings and not long after ruled a sitch incorrectly where a fielder was waiting on a thrown ball while on the base path when collided with by a runner.

Just to further my confusion on this, the definition of OBS in rule 1 matches the description in the supplement (i.e. fielding a thrown ball is not mentioned) but differs from 8.5.B.4 ("or thrown ball"). Do we have two rules disagreeing here and which is the correct one to apply?