Kill it or let it play out?

[ronald]

I know Mark does Basketball and that is my mindset on this play and, in a bb game this year when I saw one player jawing at another in a basketball game, a split second later, air went into the whistle and a T. That was my thinking when I answered and then went upstairs to the rule book. Thanks to Tom for posting the rule cause I was not going to type it.

Tom, do you have the rules on a disk or something different?

If fight starts, I am staying away but I will take quick action on jawing. I guess sportsmanship is my pet peeve. Detest unsporting behavior.

Thanks, Ron

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ronald

...Tom, do you have the rules on a disk or something different?...

When we register with the Minnesota State High School League, one of the benefits we get is membership in the NFHS Officials Association, and one of the benefits of that is access to an online .pdf copy of the rule book (which I also have saved to my hard drive). Not every state includes membership in the NFHS Officials Association, and I appreciate that the MSHSL does so. You can join as an individual; there is a fee, but I don't know what it is.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...Dead ball or not, the likelihood of a confrontation was high. Jawing or not, other than something similar to "That's enough, let's play ball" there is little else an umpire may or should do....

I agree with an earlier comment that we are armchair quarterbacking this, but the OP did ask. NFHS gives much clearer guidelines on acceptable behavior than does ASA, so since this was an NFHS game, I disagree that there is "little else an umpire may or should do..." As soon as the umpire recognizes that the game has stopped being played and taunting / baiting has begun, kill the ball and eject or warn (depending on your judgment). If the players continue into fight mode, they deserve to lose the rest of their senior season.

I agree the umpire should not do anything physical to keep the players apart... that job falls to the coaches.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I disagree that there is "little else an umpire may or should do..." As soon as the umpire recognizes that the game has stopped being played and taunting / baiting has begun, kill the ball and eject or warn (depending on your judgment). If the players continue into fight mode, they deserve to lose the rest of their senior season.

Boy, talking about taking something out of context......

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Boy, talking about taking something out of context......

How? I didn't mean to... Your statement seemed pretty clear.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

How? I didn't mean to... Your statement seemed pretty clear.

Yes, it was. Other than remind them why we are there, what else are you going to do to stop it? Run up and wedge yourself between them? Grab one and hold her back? Are you going to issue a preemptive ejection? It takes two to tango and I'm not looking for an ejection, but I'm not in a ring waiting for the bell to ring, either. I'm going to give them the opportunity to back off and then I will worry about further action.

[LIIRISHMAN]

Good umpiring is preventive umpiring.You as an official have an obligation to enforce the rules but also to monitor players conduct towards one another.I find it better to head off a potential "situation"with a quick word rather then observing a fight and making a list of ejections.Also by your inactions as that game's official you might open up your organization or even yourself up to a potential lawsuit if some player is injured as a result of your inaction.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Good umpiring is preventive umpiring.You as an official have an obligation to enforce the rules but also to monitor players conduct towards one another.I find it better to head off a potential "situation"with a quick word rather then observing a fight and making a list of ejections.Also by your inactions as that game's official you might open up your organization or even yourself up to a potential lawsuit if some player is injured as a result of your inaction.

Bull ****! You want to open yourself up to a lawsuit, go ahead and touch one of the girls or coaches. Then there is the offensive touching charges which if under 18 may have you registering in your community the rest of your life if you can find a place to live that will endure the label you will receive.

In ASA's SAG, physical and sexual abuse definition includes "unwanted physical contact" and ASA is one of these groups that are dumb enough to encourage a "zero tolerance" stance.

You TELL them to back off and they you perform your duties as an umpire and that is not the same as the Loco Parentis status a school team coach or administrator enjoy.

[wadeintothem]

You kill it and tell them to chill out and you play ball. You dont need a listed reason to kill the ball. If you need to kill it, you kill it. Thats why they give you a really cool looking blue shirt. For judgment. If you dont think you have the proper judgment for when you kill a ball and not lose the integrity of the all precious live ball .. hang it up. I dont need a rule or an article or a supplement to know this is a kill ball situation.


I'm killing it and a warning and telling them lets play ball - no one on this planet would ever question that in real life. Hopefully doing so would have prevented the ejections - but maybe not. For all you know this girl stole the other girls boyfriend. Who knows the REAL back story of that aside from the girls.. but the only place killing it in this situation would EVER get questioned is on officialforum.com.

You are not a spectator hoping for a cat fat (not that all those are bad , you are an umpire of a youth sport. But even in adult ball - I would kill it. This stuff can get out of hand quick.

As happened here.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by argodad

...R3 dances off third again, feinting towards home. F2 moves toward R3. Now both players are jawing at each other.

Sounds like action still taking place. I'm not killing it if a play is going on, even if it's one of these "silly" jumping around, faking like I'm going to run plays.

[KJUmp]

[QUOTE=wadeintothem;596533]You kill it and tell them to chill out and you play ball. You dont need a listed reason to kill the ball. If you need to kill it, you kill it. Thats why they give you a really cool looking blue shirt. For judgment. If you dont think you have the proper judgment for when you kill a ball and not lose the integrity of the all precious live ball .. hang it up. I dont need a rule or an article or a supplement to know this is a kill ball situation.


I'm killing it and a warning and telling them lets play ball - no one on this planet would ever question that in real life. Hopefully doing so would have prevented the ejections - but maybe not. For all you know this girl stole the other girls boyfriend. Who knows the REAL back story of that aside from the girls.. but the only place killing it in this situation would EVER get questioned is on officialforum.com.

You are not a spectator hoping for a cat fat (not that all those are bad , you are an umpire of a youth sport. But even in adult ball - I would kill it. This stuff can get out of hand quick. As happened here.

Well put Wade....you nailed it. I don't have all the rule sets in front of me...but don't they all under their rule chapter titled Umpires contain language that reads something like.....[B][I]each umpire has the authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.?
I'm killing it.