Kill the Play or Not?

[Fedex]

Hello all!

I am a 1st year official with a few games under my belt. I am curious as to fouls on the offense which kill the play before the snap and fouls which draw a flag but allow the play to continue. I know that false start penalties kill the play and illegal formation plays draw a flag and we assess after the play is over. What about a) 2 men in motion at the same time b) TE not being set for 1 second before the snap c) G or T not being set for 1 second before the snap?

I definately thank you all for the educating threads on this board.

[AndrewMcCarthy]

For the 3 examples you give you'd let the play go off. Ask yourself if it's a foul that the offense could correct before the snap- i.e. was it what they were doing when the ball was snapped that created the foul. If yes then flag at the snap and continue with the play.

A false start is something they do BEFORE the snap that they can not correct.

[MJT]

One that some may disagree with is if a player in motion starts up field early. The NFL and many NCAA conferences I know say to shut this down. Now that is if he turns upfield hard, thus simulating the snap, not if he us just angling to the LOS instead of parallel or backwards.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by MJT

One that some may disagree with is if a player in motion starts up field early. The NFL and many NCAA conferences I know say to shut this down. Now that is if he turns upfield hard, thus simulating the snap, not if he us just angling to the LOS instead of parallel or backwards.

While it is helpful as a new official to watch what the college and NFL refs do, remember that you are working with freshman high school kids so you have to use different standards and mechanics than you will use later in your career. The guidelines they use in college don't always transfer will to lower level ball.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Jim D

While it is helpful as a new official to watch what the college and NFL refs do, remember that you are working with freshman high school kids so you have to use different standards and mechanics than you will use later in your career. The guidelines they use in college don't always transfer will to lower level ball.

I understand the Jim, but what I am saying is that when he turns hard upfield early, he IS simulating the snap, and therefor should be shut down and called a false start. I am just saying that some NF guys think it should be called illegal motion, but that NFL and NCAA want it shut down.

[AndrewMcCarthy]

If you're working Fed rules, also note that the fouls in 7-1 will all shut the play down (signal S7 is referred to- dead ball foul) while those in 7-2 are live ball fouls- keep the play going.

The exception is illegal snap in 7-2 (you shut it down for that).

[SouthGARef]

In teaching our new flag football officials (whose rules are VERY similar to NFHS) we teach them the following acronyms. They're by no means perfect, but they will get you well on your way.

KILL THE FOLLOWING: (FIELD fouls)

F-False Start
I- Illegal Snap
E-Encroachment
L-Leaving the field on the wrong side (and other illegal sub. penalties)
D-Delay of game

ALLOW THE PLAY TO CONTINUE: (MISHAP fouls)

M-Motion (Illegal)
I- Illegal Substition (sometimes--this is by no means perfect)
S-Shift
H-Having fewer than seven on the line of scrimmage
A-A player not within the nine yard marks at the RFP
P-Participation (Illegal)


Like I said, it's by no means perfect, and by no means exhaustive. But it's helpful. Like others have said, if there's something that doesn't become a foul until the ball is snapped (like motion/shift--they can move forward or more more than two people UNTIL the snap), the play continues.

[Fedex]

Thanks to all who responded. I really appreciate it. Here's partly why I asked this question. I had a situation where the offensive tackle puts his hand on the ground simultaneously with the snap (Wasn't set for 1 second). I, as the linesman, throw the flag and let the play continue. At halftime, the GM of the team berates me because he said I should have blown the play dead. Was I correct in letting it go?

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by Fedex

Thanks to all who responded. I really appreciate it. Here's partly why I asked this question. I had a situation where the offensive tackle puts his hand on the ground simultaneously with the snap (Wasn't set for 1 second). I, as the linesman, throw the flag and let the play continue. At halftime, the GM of the team berates me because he said I should have blown the play dead. Was I correct in letting it go?

Sounds like you got it right. That is a shift and illegal shifts don't kill the play.

And GMs might be great fans of football but some don't have great rules knowledge so I wouldn't worry about him.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Fedex

Thanks to all who responded. I really appreciate it. Here's partly why I asked this question. I had a situation where the offensive tackle puts his hand on the ground simultaneously with the snap (Wasn't set for 1 second). I, as the linesman, throw the flag and let the play continue. At halftime, the GM of the team berates me because he said I should have blown the play dead. Was I correct in letting it go?

REPLY: Yes, you were correct since there was no reason to blow it dead. A lineman putting his hand on the ground is a legal act. The only thing that made the play illegal was that the snap occurred less than one second after the lineman's shift (yes...it was a shift). So, it was the snap that made the play qualify as an illegal shift -- a foul that occurs simultaneously with the snap. Some people insist that this be shut down after the snap. But this violates the football fundamental that no foul causes the ball to become dead.