Base Line and Verbal Obstruction?

[GaryBarrentine]

10U Rec Ball, ASA, Some Special Rules(No D3K, 5 balls for walk, Continuous Batting Order, etc).

Correct me if I am wrong please.

It is not a violation of ASA rules for a fielder to stand in the base line. Exception: If it hinders a runner.

It is not a violation of ASA rules to yell "hey batter, batter, swing batter".

Thanks

GaryB

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

It is not a violation of ASA rules for a fielder to stand in the base line. Exception: If it hinders a runner.

You're correct, up to the point of the exception. If they are in the act of fielding a batted ball, or if they are in possession of the ball, then they're fine. This is where we start to get into the whole debate of "was that obstruction or not?"

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

It is not a violation of ASA rules to yell "hey batter, batter, swing batter".

Again, it depends. You will always find the girls chanting different things throughout the game. If it's routine, non-offensive stuff, just let it be. If it's obviously posing a problem, then tell the coach to get the girls to cool it a while. I personally get annoyed when the catcher does this, and if I can see the batters getting pissed, I'll put a stop to it.

By rule, OBS does not have to be physical. It can be verbal. However, just because a player says something to a runner does not mean you should call OBS. Be very judicial when calling verbal OBS on the defense.

Look, chatter is chatter. It's up to you to decide A) is it unsportsmanlike and B) is it worth picking the nit?

Then again, I haven't called girls' games in 12 years, so...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

10U Rec Ball, ASA, Some Special Rules(No D3K, 5 balls for walk, Continuous Batting Order, etc).

Correct me if I am wrong please.

It is not a violation of ASA rules for a fielder to stand in the base line. Exception: If it hinders a runner.

The base line is irrelevant to an obstruction ruling.

It is not a violation of ASA rules to yell "hey batter, batter, swing batter".

Depends on to whom you are speaking. There are some on this board which think screaming at the other team is "just part of the game." Well, some people think that throwing a pitch at the batter is part of the game, too. I believe those people to be less than reputable.

My opinion is that a team should not address the opponent other than cordial greetings. Once the game is in progress, a member of a team should provide support for their teammates, not act in an unsportsmanlike or disparaging manner toward members of the other team. It is a clear line that eliminates any question between the fences. I will not eject anyone without warning and awareness of what is expected on the field. The warning is often given in a quiet and private manner, very few people know it is being offered unless the recipient decides to make an issue of it. And, no, I don't believe this affects the game or players in any negative way, shape or form.

But as I noted, this is my opinion and method of handling the situation you raised.

[GaryBarrentine]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The base line is irrelevant to an obstruction ruling.

Irish,

You and I know this, but can anyone explain why a BU would go and tell both coaches to keep thier players out of the base line?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Depends on to whom you are speaking. There are some on this board which think screaming at the other team is "just part of the game." Well, some people think that throwing a pitch at the batter is part of the game, too. I believe those people to be less than reputable.

My opinion is that a team should not address the opponent other than cordial greetings. Once the game is in progress, a member of a team should provide support for their teammates, not act in an unsportsmanlike or disparaging manner toward members of the other team. It is a clear line that eliminates any question between the fences. I will not eject anyone without warning and awareness of what is expected on the field. The warning is often given in a quiet and private manner, very few people know it is being offered unless the recipient decides to make an issue of it. And, no, I don't believe this affects the game or players in any negative way, shape or form.

But as I noted, this is my opinion and method of handling the situation you raised.

Other than USC is there any other rule this could fall under, in your opinion?

Thanks

GaryB

[tcblue13]

Rollin' Rollin'
Pitcher's goin' bowlin'

[marvin]

My feeling is that any 'chatter' should be positive and directed to one's own team. This prevents the chatter from getting nastier as the game moves on.

[GaryBarrentine]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You're correct, up to the point of the exception. If they are in the act of fielding a batted ball, or if they are in possession of the ball, then they're fine. This is where we start to get into the whole debate of "was that obstruction or not?"

Sorry, forgot to include interference in my exception.

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

By rule, OBS does not have to be physical. It can be verbal. However, just because a player says something to a runner does not mean you should call OBS. Be very judicial when calling verbal OBS on the defense.

Look, chatter is chatter. It's up to you to decide A) is it unsportsmanlike and B) is it worth picking the nit?

Then again, I haven't called girls' games in 12 years, so...

So one umpire may think that this chatter is USC or Verbal OBS, where another may not? So would this be considered a judgment call and not protestable?

Thanks

GaryB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

Irish,

You and I know this, but can anyone explain why a BU would go and tell both coaches to keep thier players out of the base line?

No, other than an umpire not knowing the rules.

Other than USC is there any other rule this could fall under, in your opinion?

Not in ASA

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

So one umpire may think that this chatter is USC or Verbal OBS, where another may not? So would this be considered a judgment call and not protestable?

Thanks

GaryB

USC is almost completely up to the umpire. There are very few acts that are specifically mentioned in the book as USC, resulting in an ejection (runners changing position and throwing a bat in anger are two off the top of my head). So yes, deciding what is USC is completely a judgment call.

Deciding whether or not something that was verbal hindered a batter, batter-runner or runner is also a judgment call.

[JPaco54]

In tournament SB games last weekend, competitive teams, Base runners were clapping their hands to distract the pitcher. Clapping started as she took her signals then stopped as she started her windup. I was not umpiring at the time but heard another fan yell out that the clapping was unsportsmanlike. After a few minutes the PU went to the HC and soonafter the clapping stopped. I have seen this in boys competitive games as well and have interpreted this as unsportsmanlike and requested the HC to instruct his players to stop. He argued for a minute that this is "competitive ball", we have always done this. He obliged. Thoughts?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

In tournament SB games last weekend, competitive teams, Base runners were clapping their hands to distract the pitcher. Clapping started as she took her signals then stopped as she started her windup. I was not umpiring at the time but heard another fan yell out that the clapping was unsportsmanlike. After a few minutes the PU went to the HC and soonafter the clapping stopped. I have seen this in boys competitive games as well and have interpreted this as unsportsmanlike and requested the HC to instruct his players to stop. He argued for a minute that this is "competitive ball", we have always done this. He obliged. Thoughts?

"Coach, in my judgment, the clapping is distracting the pitcher. The fact that it's happening only while he's pitching tells me that it's intentional. Have it stop immediately."

If he continues to argue...

"Coach, either the clapping goes, or you'll go."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

In tournament SB games last weekend, competitive teams, Base runners were clapping their hands to distract the pitcher. Clapping started as she took her signals then stopped as she started her windup. I was not umpiring at the time but heard another fan yell out that the clapping was unsportsmanlike. After a few minutes the PU went to the HC and soonafter the clapping stopped. I have seen this in boys competitive games as well and have interpreted this as unsportsmanlike and requested the HC to instruct his players to stop. He argued for a minute that this is "competitive ball", we have always done this. He obliged. Thoughts?

If it was simply clapping, I have nothing to call or say here.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'm also not one to say anything about clapping or even loud cheering FOR you team. AGAINST the opposition is another thing.

I work a JO REC league ages 10 to 14 and their bylaws specifically say that cheering for your own team is allowed. They cannot yell anything out about the opposition.

Here's the passage in the bylaws:
H. Team members are allowed to cheer for their team only. Remarks shall not be directed to any opposing player. For example, a catcher cannot say "swing" to the batter. Violations of this rule will be considered unsporting conduct and may be grounds for ejection from the game by the umpire.

This is more specific than NFHS or ASA, but it does teach the girls the basics of sportsmanship.

Ted

[ChampaignBlue]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

Irish,

You and I know this, but can anyone explain why a BU would go and tell both coaches to keep thier players out of the base line?

I can because I have. Especially with young players. Fielder standing in base path (or running path) watching play in the outfield, runner should avoid the collision but is also watching play in outfield, not where she is going. Left to continue eventually we may be sending a kid needlessly to the hospital because of a collision. A simple reminder to get out of the basepath if you are not making a play can save a broken leg or worse. Preventative umpiring.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ChampaignBlue

I can because I have. Especially with young players. Fielder standing in base path (or running path) watching play in the outfield, runner should avoid the collision but is also watching play in outfield, not where she is going. Left to continue eventually we may be sending a kid needlessly to the hospital because of a collision. A simple reminder to get out of the basepath if you are not making a play can save a broken leg or worse. Preventative umpiring.

The OP refers to the base line, not a base path.

Other than the rules stating defenders (other than the catcher) position themselves in fair territory and not in the batter's line of vision (whatever that is), there is nothing giving the umpire any authority to dictate where any defender other than the battery stands.

There are given remedies for obstruction, so even 10.3.C cannot justify coaching a player where to stand.

And the UMPIRE is not sending anyone to the hospital. It is the coach's job to coach the player. If a player goes to the hospital, it has nothing to do with the umpire unless they are making up their own rules.