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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 07:32am
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Oh dont be so but hurt.

If you want to get technical, why dont you check with your league if you are so worried about it? Because GUESS WHAT!! There are NO ASA 6U and 8U Championship play rules rules..none. You can do what you want! Its rec ball so you can make em up as you go along! Some use a machine, some use a coach to pitch, some use a T. So just make up the rule that you can reverse directions and other stuff and there ya have it - no more violations to worry about. I bet your league president A) probably doenst know the rules B) doesnt care for the 6 and 8's.

If its ALL for the kids for you (let me guess you are a coach mommy/daddy and your kid is the only legal pitcher right?) , then let em play and stop sniveling.
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Last edited by wadeintothem; Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 07:36am.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 07:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRafter View Post
Those of you that have responded to my simple request for a clarification of a softball rule submitted on a forum called Officiating.com with such a degree of close-headed, sarcastic and rude comments should be ashamed. I didn't ask for your personal judgments or attacks. I asked for assistance clarifying a rule.

You are correct. This is not the right forum for me. A forum consisting of people that actually can answer a question with an answer, not a judgment, would be much more helpful. People who actually care about the children having fun while learning fundamentals and rules, would be more helpful.

My experience with this forum has been disappointing to say the least. I am shocked to learn professionals think a child is better off learning to play the game without the benefit of learning correct mechanics. This confuses me. Those of you officials who set aside the rules, simply do not know them, don't think they matter, or don't think softball at this age is a real sport, IMO are not doing your jobs; rather, you are hurting the children. Should there be leniency with the rules at this level when appropriate, yes; however, awareness should be brought to coaches and children involved. There is a lot for the children to learn and work on. Rules of the game are one them.

In closing, if it makes you feel better to judge people who selflessly devote their own personal time, share their knowledge and give to our communities, than continue on with your insults and conclusions. I am very disappointed that so-called professionals are reacting this way.
wow, I have no response. except, sucks to be you.
Ok, just kidding.
You gotta take post in here with a LARGE grain of salt. we lack voice inflection and tone and facial expressions (stupid little cartoon face don't count...well they kinda do)
But, thanks for taking the time to bash other umpire who might not have the skill sets of other seasoned umpires, like in here. But that's typical from a coach. (Ok, that's my one cheap shot)
And no... softball at the 6U level is not a real sport. its a RECREATIONAL activity!! designed to instill the LOVE of the game and to LEARN the fundamentals of the sport.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 08:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRafter View Post
In closing, if it makes you feel better to judge people who selflessly devote their own personal time, share their knowledge and give to our communities, than continue on with your insults and conclusions. I am very disappointed that so-called professionals are reacting this way.
While devoting your time to coach youth sports is admirable, let's not get carried away. It's not quite the same as volunteering at a hospital or homeless shelter. Maybe you do those things too, I have no idea.

You catagorized some responses as insults, but they were kind compared to some responses to your type of post. I'm sure many on here didn't even respond because they saw it as just another coach's thinly veiled rant about a local umpire or group of umpires who did or didn't call this or that. Your second post seems to prove this.

Quote:
There was an ASA umpire who didn't know that foul tip caught by a catcher on the third strike was an out, that a ball hit in fair territory then rolling foul before passing first base and untouched is a foul ball and that even if the pitch was 3 feet outside, you still need to call a strike if the batter swings, etc.
For rule clarification, I would suggest the rule book. For umpire complaints, I suggest your local association. However, if you expect perfection from every umpire that's calling 8U, you may want to keep a bottle of those chill pills handy.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 08:07am
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You asked your question with the background of "I'm asking about an girl from another team," and to be honest, you're throwing up all sorts of warning flags to us umpires. All of us umpires have had questions like this before, and it always turns into a "he said, she said" match with some other coach. Typically, I refuse to get involved in these kinds of questions. It never ends well (often with some coach yelling at some other coach saying, "See? I told you so!"

Look, speaking as someone who has umpired kids' games and coached kids' games, I'm just trying to save yourself a whole lot of grief by keeping you from going down a spiral path towards frustration and despair. You're asking for rule interpretations in a game played by 6U and 8U kids. Many of these kids just learned to tie their shoes last year, and most umpires will tell you that it's tough to find some 10U pitchers who can get it NEAR the plate. You're setting your expectations way too high.

Cajun hit the nail on the head - a lot is missing when you're reading something on a forum, such as tone, inflection, etc. Take what you read with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRafter
In closing, if it makes you feel better to judge people who selflessly devote their own personal time, share their knowledge and give to our communities, than continue on with your insults and conclusions. I am very disappointed that so-called professionals are reacting this way.
Two things. First, we never claimed to be professionals, though most of us here are, or we are trying to be. There are greatly varying levels on this forum; some call NCAA Division I-A, some call local rec league or college intramural games.

Second, what do you think WE do? We devote our own personal time, share our knowledge and give to our communities as well. I spent my first 4 years of umpiring doing kids' games for free in order to give back to my community that taught me much about softball and fair play. This year, I'll spend more hours and dollars training and researching for this sport than you will as a coach (not uncommon for me to claim over $1500 in expenses on my tax returns in any given year).

Lastly, if you come onto a forum to ask a question, be prepared for a response. A human response. We're not a computer from Star Trek that just spits out answers. Frankly, I think we're all a bit shocked that a coach is even attempting to find out if a girl who's 7 or 8 years old is pitching 100% within the rules, when there are hundreds of college pitchers who aren't within the rules.

As a former kids coach who later changed his uniform, relax and let them play.
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I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.

Last edited by NCASAUmp; Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 08:10am.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 09:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRafter View Post
Those of you that have responded to my simple request for a clarification of a softball rule submitted on a forum called Officiating.com with such a degree of close-headed, sarcastic and rude comments should be ashamed. I didn't ask for your personal judgments or attacks. I asked for assistance clarifying a rule.

You are correct. This is not the right forum for me. A forum consisting of people that actually can answer a question with an answer, not a judgment, would be much more helpful. People who actually care about the children having fun while learning fundamentals and rules, would be more helpful.

My experience with this forum has been disappointing to say the least. I am shocked to learn professionals think a child is better off learning to play the game without the benefit of learning correct mechanics. This confuses me. Those of you officials who set aside the rules, simply do not know them, don't think they matter, or don't think softball at this age is a real sport, IMO are not doing your jobs; rather, you are hurting the children. Should there be leniency with the rules at this level when appropriate, yes; however, awareness should be brought to coaches and children involved. There is a lot for the children to learn and work on. Rules of the game are one them.

In closing, if it makes you feel better to judge people who selflessly devote their own personal time, share their knowledge and give to our communities, than continue on with your insults and conclusions. I am very disappointed that so-called professionals are reacting this way.
Hey, now I'm offended! Unlike these other judgmental self-important arbiters of all that is good and proper in youth sports (), I only addressed the rules part of your questions (except for the one shot about using umpires at 6U...).
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Last edited by Dakota; Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 09:23am.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 10:55am
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Yes lorafter you should take a chill pill or, like a HS junior told a hyper opposing coach in one of my games the other night "take a breath and eat a donut once in a while."

Some of the responses have bordered on rude but you set the original tone that smacked of anger and stress over what you've seen in games. What you are missing, as has already been said, is you're not the first to come on here trying get "ammunition" to shoot at other parents or players, so we're all a little putoff. And you are also missing the point that many of us coached for many, many years and we had daughters play up through college ball. I still teach pitchers ranging in age from 8 to HS varsity. We've been through the softball wars and we've seen every imaginable style of parent and coaching personality and some are just not pretty. We also have a lot better idea than you may have of what are reasonable expectations for players at different ages. For example- you stated you got to HS pitching wrongly and had to correct. My expectation of HS age is to be pretty sound mechanically and legally with only minor issues to address (yeah I know, not always the case). Should your experience of improper coaching be a reason to try to clamp down so hard on a 7 or 8 year old kid? Lot of difference in ability, maturity and training time between 8 and about 15. As I said earlier, most 6, 7, and 8 year olds struggle to throw something across the plate. For those ages it's reasonable to let them develop a love of the game, enjoy the thrill of pitching, and let them evolve more legally at their pace as they can be worked through it. Why pressure them so young?

My thoughts anyway. So eat a donut and keep reading the board. You may learn something even though you to try to imply you have it all in your hip pocket.

Last edited by FullCount; Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 10:59am.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 02:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRafter View Post
I am on my third season of coaching my daughter's 6-U now 8-U softball teams. I am a bit frustrated with the mechanical flaws that are being taught at clinics and by other coaches. I could care less if the umpires call players on certain techicalities; however, I want to see the kids learning proper mechanics from the get-go.
Okay, this is extraneous info. Umpires call the rules of the game whether it is young ladies or old men playing, that is their job. You are the coach, you teach the mechanics, we call the games. BTW, how much less could you care if the umpires call players on certain technicalities?

Let's parse this action.

Quote:
This pitcher starts her rotation with the ball in her glove
I assume prior to this point, the pitcher contacted the pitcher's plate with both feet and her hands were separated and simulated taking a signal from the catcher, coach, parent, lady selling hot dogs. If not, it is now an illegal pitch.

Quote:
then swings her arm back past her hip then forward until she has the ball back to her glove
Assuming she was good to this point, by separating the hands and then coming back together, it is now an IP.

Quote:
fully extended above her head, then with no pause she brings the ball back down past her side then forward again to the traditional windmill rotation.
To start, no pause is allowed once the hands separate. Other than all the illegal stuff, sounds pretty good to me

Quote:
In any event, my understanding has always been that you can only cross your hip on the back swing then through the windmill until the release at the hip. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Consider yourself corrected. In FP, the hip isn't a consideration as it concerns when the ball must be released.

Quote:
Thank you!!
You're welcome. I know this is late, but I didn't want to be left out.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 08:54pm
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Lorafter:
This is the wrong place to slam umpires. You came here, gave us a bunch of BS that you wanted an interp so that "proper mechanics" could be pointed out to the opposing 8U pitcher's coach, and you act shocked that you got flammed. We've all seen your typeof act before, either here on a forum or at a field during the season.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 11:36pm
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I just read this whole thread. Three more minutes of my life wasted...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 23, 2009, 09:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Clary View Post
I just read this whole thread. Three more minutes of my life wasted...
And if this site kept stats on total time logged in, we would have the complete story!
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