The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 02:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9
Smile

I have a couple of questions about illegal pitches and would like to hear some of your opinions on the subject. How much do you let a pitcher get by with crow hopping before saying something or calling an illegal pitch? And do you usually call it when you see it or wait for a coach to say something about it? I coach a 12 and under team and have seen a lot of games this year in that age group up to 16 and under. It seems like alot of the pitchers around here in all age groups crow hop when the pitch and most of the time it seems pretty obvious, but nothing is usually called. Most of the times in our games if we say something about it, the umpires will let it go on for the rest of the inning and then say something between innings, which corrects the problem sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time when the pitchers change and start pitching correctly, there is a major difference in the pitches (speed and accuracy). I was just wanting to get some different points of view on the subject. Thanks

Greg
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 06:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,560
Quote:
Originally posted by jggilliam
I have a couple of questions about illegal pitches and would like to hear some of your opinions on the subject. How much do you let a pitcher get by with crow hopping before saying something or calling an illegal pitch? And do you usually call it when you see it or wait for a coach to say something about it? I coach a 12 and under team and have seen a lot of games this year in that age group up to 16 and under. It seems like alot of the pitchers around here in all age groups crow hop when the pitch and most of the time it seems pretty obvious, but nothing is usually called. Most of the times in our games if we say something about it, the umpires will let it go on for the rest of the inning and then say something between innings, which corrects the problem sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time when the pitchers change and start pitching correctly, there is a major difference in the pitches (speed and accuracy). I was just wanting to get some different points of view on the subject. Thanks

Greg
Greg,

With all due respect to you as a coach, your questions are very leading in a trollish manner. Many of us have responded to questions like this and you wouldn't believe the storm it created and the folks who came out of the woodwork for the sole purpose of trashing umpires.

So, that being said, the best response is calling it when you see it. BTW, crow-hopping isn't that easy a thing to do, especially for youngsters without it being obvious.

__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 07:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 414
Here's my 2 cents. If I see illegal pitching I usually say something during warm-up's. I want the coach involved right away before the game even starts.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 08:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4
Send a message via AIM to KathyCG
I called a 12U game last night. I've tried to imagine the crow hop without ever seeing it. I've seen where the pitcher would go into the windup and take a small step with the pivot foot before releasing the ball. But last night one pitcher would go into the windup, step/drag her pivot foot then release the ball, so it looked like she probably was crow hopping as the BALL RELEASE was when she put her pivot foot down (second starting point).

Her release looked like Cat Osterman's (video from another board--Ernie Parker's web site maybe?) where her delivery was being questioned as crow-hopping.

Shame on me, I didn't call any IPs. But, not having seen that kind of release before, I was not too sure.

Also, this is my third year as a sanctioned umpire, and I've been calling mostly 10U and 12B/C-level teams. If I see a pitcher start with one foot off of the pitching plate or doing something else wrong, I will tell the coach about it. But this one I was not too sure of, so I didn't say anything (except I might know who her dad is, so I will check it out!).

__________________
Kathy
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 08:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: woodville, tx
Posts: 3,156
KathyCG,

Welcome to the board...

Cat is a leaper, very very rarely crow hops.


__________________
glen _______________________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
--Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 07:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ;152347
Here's my 2 cents. If I see illegal pitching I usually say something during warm-up's. I want the coach involved right away before the game even starts.
I appreciate that response. I think it is a very effective approach.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 08:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 448
NFHS | Softball Video Clips - Pitching

Watch those clips for training/examples of illegal pitches. Remember they are HS rules so you will some stepping back from the pitcher's plate, which would be illegal in most other associations.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 08:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRafter View Post
I appreciate that response. I think it is a very effective approach.
The problem with that approach, especially as pitchers advance, is they often use an illegal motion during warmups. They are warming up, not pitching.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 11:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by jggilliam View Post
I have a couple of questions about illegal pitches and would like to hear some of your opinions on the subject. How much do you let a pitcher get by with crow hopping before saying something or calling an illegal pitch? And do you usually call it when you see it or wait for a coach to say something about it? I coach a 12 and under team and have seen a lot of games this year in that age group up to 16 and under. It seems like alot of the pitchers around here in all age groups crow hop when the pitch and most of the time it seems pretty obvious, but nothing is usually called. Most of the times in our games if we say something about it, the umpires will let it go on for the rest of the inning and then say something between innings, which corrects the problem sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time when the pitchers change and start pitching correctly, there is a major difference in the pitches (speed and accuracy). I was just wanting to get some different points of view on the subject. Thanks

Greg
90% of the time a coach is crying about a crow hop.. the pitcher isnt crowing hopping... so I dont call it that 90% of the time. He's just trying to rattle the other pitcher so weaseling for an advantage and trying to use me to do it.

The other 10% of the time I saw it before you and already called it or addressed it in some way (depending on what level/type of play).



Warning IP's during warms ups is a waste of time IMO. Ive seen pitchers warm up from 2nd base, many walk through.

It serves no purpose.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS

Last edited by wadeintothem; Thu Mar 19, 2009 at 11:17pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 07:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: LA
Posts: 642
shoot.. 99% of the time the coaches are crying about crow hopping when its actually a leap. and these are the people that are suppose to be instructing?
But, i dont use the term "leap"... its "coach she had her pivot foot off the ground before the release of the ball" ...that makes em scratch their heads.
__________________
Will Rogers must not have ever officiated in Louisiana.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 12:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by jggilliam View Post
How much do you let a pitcher get by with crow hopping before saying something or calling an illegal pitch?
Call the illegal pitch when you see it. Call it early, call it every time you see it, make it stop.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 09:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 937
KathyCG:
I echo MichaelVA's sentiments.....
When you see illegal...call illegal. Call it loud, call it with confidence and authority. If you don't call IP's when you see them you can't control the game. I mean let's be honest, each coach always thinks that the other team's pitcher is illegal, and wastes no time *****ing to you about it.Call IP's early, and the noise from the benches will quiet down.
But most importantly, do study the pitching rules for whatever code you're working...learn and understand the differences between a leap and a crowhop. Watch whatever video that's out there on illegal on pitching that you can. Become an expert...know more about what is AND isn't an IP than the coaches who are doing the complaining.
Welcome to the forum...have a great season.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 09:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
KathyCG:
I echo MichaelVA's sentiments.....
When you see illegal...call illegal. Call it loud, call it with confidence and authority. If you don't call IP's when you see them you can't control the game. I mean let's be honest, each coach always thinks that the other team's pitcher is illegal, and wastes no time *****ing to you about it.Call IP's early, and the noise from the benches will quiet down.
But most importantly, do study the pitching rules for whatever code you're working...learn and understand the differences between a leap and a crowhop. Watch whatever video that's out there on illegal on pitching that you can. Become an expert...know more about what is AND isn't an IP than the coaches who are doing the complaining.
Welcome to the forum...have a great season.
Kathy isn't going to read your post, I have a feeling, since her last post was almost 5 years ago. This is a thread that was long since dead, that recently got resurrected.
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 10:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi View Post
Kathy isn't going to read your post, I have a feeling, since her last post was almost 5 years ago. This is a thread that was long since dead, that recently got resurrected.
you never know...
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 21, 2009, 05:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem View Post
you never know...
Yeah, she might have changed her id, like to wade...
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:28am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1