ASA Rule; Access to,

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

As an independent contractor I have the right to work for any organization that is providing games. I stay current with the various rules and attire.

ASA Fast pitch seems to be on the decline in the Metro DC area. I'm seeing more and more teams that used to only play ASA ball competing at NSA, U-Trip and PONY tournaments.

Of COURSE you have that right......but WHY wouldnt you stay loyal and support (and Improve) the organization that make the effort to actually train you? For a paycheck?

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Of COURSE you have that right......but WHY wouldnt you stay loyal and support (and Improve) the organization that make the effort to actually train you? For a paycheck?

When there's no ASA games during the week or tournaments on the weekends, I'm umpiring where the games are played.

I support ASA by paying my dues, attending their clinics and umpiring ASA games when they are available.

[bkbjones]

Well, I feel differently from some of you, and I know I am not alone in feeling the way I feel.

I have been afforded many opportunities in ASA. Perhaps it's the leadership role taken by SMSUA. My first year as an SMSUA member, I worked the dish at a regional final and worked a Western National. I've had numerous other opportunities in ASA, high school and community college ball under the auspices of SMSUA.

As a trainer and mentor here, I do have a problem with folks working for Brand X, Y or Z. We are very fortunate in that we have an ASA JO invitational type tournament every weekend from March through July, and September-October -- unless we have ASA championship play scheduled for a weekend. So, we have lots of opportunities to wear our ASA uniforms.

I feel those folks who are working the other brands up here are taking money from my pocket and from our umpire organization. It is no secret that our training is superior to that offered by others (if they even offer training -- and from the horror stories I have heard I doubt they do much if any training). Heck, one of the high mucky-mucks from Brand X went through our SMSUA training.

I feel someone who goes through ASA training in our association should be loyal to ASA if they seek assignments to championship play. IMHO, no matter where they are located, umpires working for other softball organizations should not openly expect assignments to ASA championship play.

[topper]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

IMHO, no matter where they are located, umpires working for other softball organizations should not openly expect assignments to ASA championship play.

Does the term "independent contractor" mean anything to you? What would compel someone to pass up $35-$40/game to work for $25/game? Loyalty? The opportunity to take a week's vacation and travel to an ASA natiional to work for $18-$20? Wake up and smell the cost of living.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by topper

Does the term "independent contractor" mean anything to you? What would compel someone to pass up $35-$40/game to work for $25/game? Loyalty? The opportunity to take a week's vacation and travel to an ASA natiional to work for $18-$20? Wake up and smell the cost of living.

Well, there is the matter of being able to say you worked an ASA national. There is more to umpiring than money, you know.

You can go work wherever you want; just don't expect an organization to give you the best assignments if you do not contribute to that organization when needed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

Does the term "independent contractor" mean anything to you? What would compel someone to pass up $35-$40/game to work for $25/game? Loyalty? The opportunity to take a week's vacation and travel to an ASA natiional to work for $18-$20? Wake up and smell the cost of living.

Some of us are more BLUE than GREEN. I would venture to say that most of us on this board actually work to get to the big tournament and game. Many are thrilled to get the nod because of our effort and work ethics, not necessarily because of longevity and/or availability.

Many of us would do it for nothing and I'm sure some on this board have been there and done that.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Some of us are more BLUE than GREEN. I would venture to say that most of us on this board actually work to get to the big tournament and game. Many are thrilled to get the nod because of our effort and work ethics, not necessarily because of longevity and/or availability.

Many of us would do it for nothing and I'm sure some on this board have been there and done that.

I just work to have fun. I want to be the best, yes, but I don't care about the money or the big game.

[PtotheB]

I have always chosen hobbies that have challenged me in one way or another. When I was in Alaska I earned my private pilots license. It was a very challenging but very expensive hobby. Officiating is also challenging if approached the right way but it also happens to pay for gas. Would I do it for free? Probably, at least to some extent but not as much as I do now.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I just work to have fun. I want to be the best, yes, but I don't care about the money or the big game.

I agree. I enjoy the umpiring. I will and have done it for nothing. I don't
live close to any of the games I call. Wanting the big game, they all are
big games.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Some of us are more BLUE than GREEN. I would venture to say that most of us on this board actually work to get to the big tournament and game. Many are thrilled to get the nod because of our effort and work ethics, not necessarily because of longevity and/or availability.

Many of us would do it for nothing and I'm sure some on this board have been there and done that.

Money is an enticemnt, certainly. But if all I wanted was the income, I'd be doing something else, 'cuz I'd be making a whole lot more than I do on a ball field. I don't know that I need the BIG game, I think I've done enough of those. I do, however, want to be part of a game where good ball is played - and all "local" games (within my district) are much more of a recreation level of play. So I travel and work the best games I can - some of that is ASA, some of that is ISC, and the rest are under another sanctioning body. If there were a lot of quality ball in my area, I'd be content to stay local - but there isn't. The same district commissioner who doesn't care to send any umpires to a national thinks that recreation level ball is the only level he wants to run tournaments for.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Money is an enticemnt, certainly. But if all I wanted was the income, I'd be doing something else, 'cuz I'd be making a whole lot more than I do on a ball field. I don't know that I need the BIG game, I think I've done enough of those. I do, however, want to be part of a game where good ball is played - and all "local" games (within my district) are much more of a recreation level of play. So I travel and work the best games I can - some of that is ASA, some of that is ISC, and the rest are under another sanctioning body. If there were a lot of quality ball in my area, I'd be content to stay local - but there isn't. The same district commissioner who doesn't care to send any umpires to a national thinks that recreation level ball is the only level he wants to run tournaments for.

Exactly!!!

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by topper

Does the term "independent contractor" mean anything to you? What would compel someone to pass up $35-$40/game to work for $25/game? Loyalty? The opportunity to take a week's vacation and travel to an ASA natiional to work for $18-$20? Wake up and smell the cost of living.

You're asking ME to wake up and smell the cost of living? Oh, if you only knew. Since August of 2006 I have not been able to work more than five hours a day at my "real" job due to health reasons. Since April 1, I have been unable to work my "real" job at all. I am not going to get into all the reasons why, but that is beside the point.

Oh, that other waking up and smelling the cost of living? Medical expenses, including visiting up to four different makes of doctors every month and getting the prescriptions, costs about $1,000 a month. It would cost more, but my wife has decent insurance. Also I have chosen to ignore a couple of health concerns which I really shouldn't ignore, but life is made of choices. Ignoring them will very likely shorten my life, but, hey, just think what a difference slowly dying makes on the cost of living!

Obviously loyalty doesn't mean as much to you as it does to me and many others. If that is a "fault" in your eyes, I feel sorry for you. If you are in it for the money, please quit now and go cook fries at McDonalds, work at 7-11 or something else. You will make far more money (net profit) at Mickey D's than you ever will umpiring. You might not make as many friends for life at Mickey D's, but, heck, you'll be much better off in regards to the cost of living.

Oh, and that week's vacation to work a national for $18 a game? Well, I was supposed to go to Illinois in 2007 for a week's vacation and get that $18 a game, but things just didn't work out. However, I'd do it in a heartbeat -- and Thank God there are thousands of others who feel the very same.

[topper]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

You're asking ME to wake up and smell the cost of living? Oh, if you only knew.

Obviously loyalty doesn't mean as much to you as it does to me and many others. If that is a "fault" in your eyes, I feel sorry for you. If you are in it for the money, please quit now and go cook fries at McDonalds, work at 7-11 or something else. You will make far more money (net profit) at Mickey D's than you ever will umpiring. You might not make as many friends for life at Mickey D's, but, heck, you'll be much better off in regards to the cost of living.

I'm truly sorry to hear about your health issues and hope that things improve for you.

The assumption that loyalty doesn't mean much to me because my loyalty doesn't lie with ASA or any other association is a bad one. I base mine on personal relationships and reciprocation. The leadership of ASA in this area on both the officiating and non-officiating side do very little to earn that loyalty. They, like wadeintothem, seem to have an obvious disdain for those who have chosen to move into college ball even though they cut their teeth working ASA leagues, qualifiers, Metro tournaments, etc. Loyalty is a two way street.

My problem is not with those umpires who decide to be exclusive to ASA and work for whatever price ASA deems fair. That's their business. It's with those who criticize others who, for whatever reason, decide not to.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by topper

They, like wadeintothem, seem to have an obvious disdain for those who have chosen to move into college ball even though they cut their teeth working ASA leagues, qualifiers, Metro tournaments, etc. Loyalty is a two way street.

Hey, I dont have a disdain for NCAA at all, in fact, I'd switch careers at even a little less money if it would allow me to work NCAA; my job does not allow me to work NCAA, and that sucks. Furthermore, I am of the opinion NCAA mechanics are superior to ASA by a lot. So you misrepresent my position.

I was discussing the NCAA type umpires who sit around sniveling about money all the time while they begrudgingly work ASA games. There arent many like that, most are great to be around, but that type is around....

[archangel]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Obviously loyalty doesn't mean as much to you as it does to me and many others. If that is a "fault" in your eyes, I feel sorry for you. If you are in it for the money, please quit now and go cook fries at McDonalds, work at 7-11 or something else. You will make far more money (net profit) at Mickey D's than you ever will umpiring. You might not make as many friends for life at Mickey D's, but, heck, you'll be much better off in regards to the cost of living.

Interesting discussion. I, like many others here, (that I dont know), officiate sports year round--because of passion for this hobby.

However, I'm amused at those that proudly boast a superior attitude by saying "get out, if you're doing it for the $$". Who's to say someone in it for the $ isnt a good official? Any examples given can surely be offset by others. Money motivations for doing anything doesnt equate to lack of ability.

I can honestly say 2 things:
1) while officiating varsity baseball, football, basketball, softball, I have never asked a partner if they're only in it for the money(if I'm the norm, how would one judge anothers issue of $ vs passion?).
2)We've all worked w/officials that we perceived better or worse than us (usually only remember the worse, lol, maybe a subconscience pat on my back?)
Should I judge the good as PASSION, and the bad as $$ only motivated? I think not.-- i.e. A $1M/yr income lawyer that is very good, but does it for his lifestyle, cars, homes, ect....