Warm-up Pitches

[blueump]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

My point is that you have one minute between innings. You can choose to spend it however you want, either pitching or what ever else floats your boat.

This is not what you said in your original post. You said you decide how she's going to spend her time because you deduct one pitch from her warm-ups. Show me the rule on deducting pitches because equipment is left on the ground, and I'll shut up.

[mcrowder]

I think you're mixing two rules.

She gets 60 seconds or 5 pitches. Give them to her. Don't anticipate future shenanigans and deduct pitches based on your guess as to how long a future high five will take or how long it will take her to get gear on.

AFTER the 60 seconds or 5 pitches, and after you brush the plate (and no need to rush the brushing of the plate just so you can GET the pitcher), when you tell her to pitch, she has 20 seconds. If she can't get equipment on or celebrate a peprally with her team during that 25-30 seconds, then you simply call a ball.

I've found that calling a ball is FAR more effective in dealing with nonsensical time-wasting after a pitcher's warmups than trying to cut pitches out of her warmups.

And TC - I think a lot of the confusion in this thread stemmed from "GameFace" not being as known as you thought it was. I bet all but 2 of the posts above had no idea what you were talking about, and were just thinking "game face" (uncapitalized) - not getting that you were talking about equipment.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I am willing to bet a steak dinner that there isn't a pitcher who out there who has taken all 5 warmup pitches AND THEN put her protective gear on in less than 61 seconds.

As I posted a second ago ... she doesn't HAVE to.

If we are going to be hawks on the time, then she HAS to get her 5 pitches in within 60 seconds. She does NOT have to be ready to also pitch within those 60 seconds. She has to be ready to pitch within 20 seconds of you telling her to pitch. COMPLETELY different things. Don't combine them.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by blueump

In your original post you made it clear that you had changed the rules

These are your words not mine. I did not say that I had changed any rules. In fact, it was crystal clear that I stated that I was enforcing a specifc rule under specific conditions.

You may not agree with my application of the rule, which is your perogative.

Originally Posted by blueump

to fit your dislike of the pitcher leaving her mask on the ground.

To quote Ronald Reagan, "Well...there you go again". I did not say that I liked or disliked anything.

Originally Posted by blueump

You clearly stated, unless I misunderstood, that you automatically deduct one pitch from what she would have gotten originally.

Yipee...Something in my OP was actually understood at face value.

Originally Posted by blueump

I simply pointed out that the rule book gives her 1 minute, despite where her mask is laying. You have no authority as a umpire to deduct from her number of warm up pitches based on wearing or not wearing a mask.

Dang! Just when I thought we were getting somewhere. I will take you on this point. I have every bit of authority and the responsibility to reduce the number of pitches based on any factor that I deem detrimental to the enforcement of the rule.

To support my case, let me give some examples - none of which involve the "Game Face":
1. Pitcher has thrown 3 pitches that the catcher had to retrieve each off the back stop...one of which got back to the pitcher via center field. Dude, in my game, the next pitch is going down.

2. Pitcher is standing in the circle but catcher is putting on gear in the dugout. Coaches are standing by the dugout door, chatting it up. Catcher comes out and I tell her how many pitches she gets. In some cases, I simply call "Batter Up".

3. Catcher (or coach) is warming up P. She throws a pitch. Recieves the ball from C. Walks all the way out of the circle (remember the Mad Hungarian?) and then liesurely throws pitch #2. Now way she is making it to 5.

Originally Posted by blueump

Whether she can accomplish everything she wants to in less than one minute was not your statement or the basis of my argument. The deduction of one pitch from what she would have gotten originally is my point of contention.

Obviously you read my post, but not my mind. I didn't mean to get out in the weeds right off the bat.

According to my notes from the clinics we had when this rule went into effect last year, at 50 seconds you tell C to throw down, at 70 seconds if a pitch has not been thrown, call BALL 1.

In my pre-game meeting I inform both coaches that we are strictly enforcing the 1-minute/5-pitch rule. In my games, she gets 5 pitches if we are ready to play after 1 minute.

I know how long it takes for this equipment to put on. And adjust the number of pitches accordingly.

If you show me an example of a player that can accomplish "this" all within the prescribed time limit, I will change my position and buy you a steak dinner. However, I am not going to have an "automatic equipment time out" at the beginning of each half-inning.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I think you're mixing two rules.

She gets 60 seconds or 5 pitches. Give them to her. Don't anticipate future shenanigans and deduct pitches based on your guess as to how long a future high five will take or how long it will take her to get gear on.

AFTER the 60 seconds or 5 pitches, and after you brush the plate (and no need to rush the brushing of the plate just so you can GET the pitcher), when you tell her to pitch, she has 20 seconds. If she can't get equipment on or celebrate a peprally with her team during that 25-30 seconds, then you simply call a ball.

I've found that calling a ball is FAR more effective in dealing with nonsensical time-wasting after a pitcher's warmups than trying to cut pitches out of her warmups.

And TC - I think a lot of the confusion in this thread stemmed from "GameFace" not being as known as you thought it was. I bet all but 2 of the posts above had no idea what you were talking about, and were just thinking "game face" (uncapitalized) - not getting that you were talking about equipment.

Yes, there was a lot of confusion generated by the loose use of the generic term "Game Face". There are now several other brands. It is like "kleenex" versus "tissue".

[mcrowder]

Tony ... what's really frustrating here is that you're making me agree with Blueump.

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

These are your words not mine. I did not say that I had changed any rules. In fact, it was crystal clear that I stated that I was enforcing a specifc rule under specific conditions.

What rule are you enforcing? The rule that states she gets 60 seconds or 5 pitches? And you're enforcing this by giving her less than 60 seconds and less than 5 pitches. Exactly how do you think you are enforcing this rule?

I did not say that I liked or disliked anything.

Surely you can understand why any reader of your post would infer that you did not like the pitcher wasting your time by using the gameface, since you are in effect taking away a pitch from them solely because they are using it...

1. Pitcher has thrown 3 pitches that the catcher had to retrieve each off the back stop...one of which got back to the pitcher via center field. Dude, in my game, the next pitch is going down.

No problem - you are enforcing the "1 minute" part of the rule.

2. Pitcher is standing in the circle but catcher is putting on gear in the dugout. Coaches are standing by the dugout door, chatting it up. Catcher comes out and I tell her how many pitches she gets. In some cases, I simply call "Batter Up".

Again ... you are enforcing the 1 minute part of the rule. This is entirely different from what you said in your first post.

3. Catcher (or coach) is warming up P. She throws a pitch. Recieves the ball from C. Walks all the way out of the circle (remember the Mad Hungarian?) and then liesurely throws pitch #2. Now way she is making it to 5.

Ditto. See ... all three of these, you've mentally started your clock when she got out there, and since they are slow getting the pitches going, you are giving them 1 minute to warm up ... just like you are supposed to. The reason this is different from what you said in the OP is that in the OP you are only allowing her 45-50 seconds (or 3-4 pitches) because of her expected activities AFTER her warmup period is over. You don't have the right to do this. If her post-warmup activities are taking to long, you CERTAINLY have recourse ... but taking away pitches BEFORE these activities is not what you should be doing.

You did not respond to my other post - I look forward to your response there.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Yes, there was a lot of confusion generated by the loose use of the generic term "Game Face". There are now several other brands. It is like "kleenex" versus "tissue".

I think you missed a great career in overseeing air line schedules.

Frankly, I have never seen any pitcher use 60 seconds to deliver a meager 5 warm up pitches.

[CecilOne]

1) We all know the minute is a written rule, and its application is subjective. It seems the interp is that 5 pitches thrown expeditiously fits the rule and no stop watch is required.
2) We should not tell a catcher to throw down or for that matter tell any player to do anything, just inform them of the status (one more, last pitch, etc.)

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I think you missed a great career in overseeing air line schedules.

Frankly, I have never seen any pitcher use 60 seconds to deliver a meager 5 warm up pitches.

I see the smiley ... but the next time you umpire, bring a stopwatch. Have someone start it when the 3rd out is made. Have them stop it when you direct her to pitch. Don't time it yourself, or you'll hurry them along. Then check it after - you'll be shocked. My bet - over 2 minutes.

Then have this person time it each half inning - see if you EVER get close to 1 minute without dropping a pitch. I bet you don't - even if you hurry them.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Yes, there was a lot of confusion generated by the loose use of the generic term "Game Face". There are now several other brands. It is like "kleenex" versus "tissue".

Let me first apologize to Tony.... I had no idea what he was refering to, and no clue that it was equipment, So I apologize for refering to his post as "crap"

I still STRONGLY disagree with him being so tight with the time limit....if the girls are hustling...Im giving 5 pitches..... that number will decrease if they huddle before coming out. 5 pitches and tossing the ball around might take over a minute, but as long as its not getting ugly,I will allow it...

[Paddy]

We only use the 5 pitches in the first inning and 3 pitches there after and don't time it.
But my question is how do you time it ?
I don't carry a stopwatch. Do you have a game clock that indicates seconds on the field that tell you that a minute has passed. Like they use at WC for the 20 seconds.

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

According to my notes from the clinics we had when this rule went into effect last year, at 50 seconds you tell C to throw down, at 70 seconds if a pitch has not been thrown, call BALL 1.

And this sounds very strange, first of all you call it at 50 sec. instead of 60.
Second a catcher doesn't need to throw down.
Third don't you need to make sure the batter and you are ready and call Play Ball before you can call the pitcher for not delivering on time ?

[tcannizzo]

Darrell,
Apology not necessary, but accepted. No harm - no foul...


Our association is persnickety about this subject. We have been strictly adhering to this rule both ASA and High School. However, the Game Face thing is mine, and mine only.

I also want to be clear about how I do this. When I say that I automatically deduct a pitch, it is purely mental in my head (thanks Yogi). I do not tell pitchers that I am docking pitches. And A B S O L U T E L Y !!! If she can deliver her pitches and then get her equipment on in one minute, she gets five pitches.

I have waited almost a full year before I shared this concept with anyone, in order not to shoot my mouth too soon. Based on my experience, I haven't had a pitcher that could get to five and do the head gear in the prescribed time frame.

Yes, it is pre-concieved in my head when I see the equipment laying on the ground. And the steak dinner offer is still on the table. Any takers? I like eating steak, especially on other people's money.

P.S. To the poster who felt that I just wanted to get home earlier, I am getting home at the same time as you. The wide majority of my games are timed. So the question becomes: How many innings do YOU get in? 3 1/2, 4, OK 5? My preference is 6 or 7. And the teams like it too.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Paddy

We only use the 5 pitches in the first inning and 3 pitches there after and don't time it.

I wouldn't know about that...I only call ASA and NHFS/GHSA.

Originally Posted by Paddy

But my question is how do you time it ?
I don't carry a stopwatch. Do you have a game clock that indicates seconds on the field that tell you that a minute has passed. Like they use at WC for the 20 seconds.

Our clinician instructed us to start the count mentally - I do not use a stopwatch. But I have seen some that do. Just not my style.

I start my mental count when I reach my position on the foul line. Not from the exact moment of the 3rd out, although that would be carrying it out to the letter of the law.

After several months of counting, it becomes a ryhthym that doesn't really need to be counted. I ususally count until the pitcher throws the first pitch. Then take what is left of the 60 seconds and divide by 10 to see how many she is going to get.

It is amazing how many pitchers don't start their first warm up pitch until 35-40 seconds into the count. "That will be 2 pitches, Catch".

Originally Posted by Paddy

And this sounds very strange, first of all you call it at 50 sec. instead of 60.
Second a catcher doesn't need to throw down.
Third don't you need to make sure the batter and you are ready and call Play Ball before you can call the pitcher for not delivering on time ?

The catcher throwing down at 50 gives them 10 seconds to get the ball back to the pitcher and then 10 more seconds for her to deliver the pitch (at 70 seconds)

As the catcher throws down, I call Batter Up.
If the catcher does not choose to throw down, I do not make her. I will tell coaches however, that if they have taken 4 warm-ups and the catcher isn't ready yet, that if they want the catcher to have a throw-down, then they should wait for the catcher to take the pitch. This is the one player that I will wait for and not call a BALL if they weren't ready. Call me inconsistent, but heck, I am partial to catchers...

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

2) We should not tell a catcher to throw down or for that matter tell any player to do anything, just inform them of the status (one more, last pitch, etc.)

Curious as to why you don't tell player to throw down......