Warm up pitches

[Jim Beltz]

Starting pitcher F1 who has been pitching the entire game, goes out to the mound in inning number 5 and begins to warm up. After he has delivered one (1) warm up pitch it is discovered that the pitcher is out of availible innings to pitch ( this is a 12 year old, Junior Baseball League). The head coach directs the pitcher to go to 1st base, and directs the 1st basemen to pitch. At this point the umpire takes charge and states that the pitching change cannot be made until after the pitcher, who has begun to warm up, pitches to the first batter of the inning ( except for injury, etc., etc.,).

We argued that since the starting pitcher had already pitched to the first batter of the game as directed in Rule 3-1-1, and that once that is done, he may be substituted at any time while on offense or on defense, and further that rule 3-1-1 governs the pitching requirements of starting pitchers, not Rule 3-1-2. Rule 3-1-2 and its pitching requirements apply to substitutes pitchers. We also contend that the only question for he umpire to address would have been, how many warm up pitches would the substitute have availible to him since the starting pitcher had already used one. See 2002 case book...pitcher coming in assumes the warm up pitch count of the retiring pitcher.

We also contend that there is a penalty note in Rule 3-1-1 which should be applied in the event that the starting pitcher does not pitch to the first batter of the game (or even if it is the 1st batter in any successive inning) and the penalty is removal and he may not return to pitch, but may play any other position.

Can anyone out there site a case or ruling that can clear this up for me?

(Side note: In our junior baseball league, substitutions are free including for pitchers, JBO Rule VII-F, and contains no exceptions).


[Edited by Jim Beltz on Dec 6th, 2002 at 12:19 PM]

[Tim C]

Jim:

Since I am ONLY located a few miles north of you in Portland I’ll try to jump on this quickly.

First, I hope that the umpire was not a member of the Portland Baseball Umpires Association.

Second, I had an answer all written until I read your parenthetical reference at the end of your post.

Third, my answer is based ONLY on FED/OBR rules and admittedly really have a problem sometimes understanding “local rulings.”

The ruling:

Under FED and OBR rulings you have everything straight in your mind. The only thing you don’t refer to is the actual responsibilities of a relief pitcher once they enter and that may be the root of the problem.

Under FED and OBR a relief pitcher must face one batter or retire the base runners before being replaced. THAT’S THE LIST!

Even your local rules seem to preclude an umpire from circumventing them. In your example you refer that the “pitcher is out of available innings to pitch” – how can an umpire circumvent a “rule” that is based on safety. Easy answer . . . he can’t and, as you point out, the ultimate penalty would be an ejection . . . so you would lose him as a player but at least he would not be pitching.

All your references are good in letting us (the evil guys that umpire) know that you know what you’re talking about.

So, on the surface, it appears that the umpire misapplied the rules and didn’t really “get it.”

HOWEVER, your parenthetical reference could “confuse” an umpire as to who can and who cannot be substituted for after warm-up pitches begin.

Now I am a common sense, game management type guy. If I was your UIC I would not only have allowed (required) the pitching change in the name of safety I would have allowed the relief pitcher all eight warm up throws.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Dec 8th, 2002 at 11:49 AM]

[Jim Beltz]

Thanks, Tim for your speedy reply. Actually in this particular game (our 4th game in the State Tournament) the umpire imposed a forfeit on us. I just want to make sure I am clear on the rules. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

I am quite certain, that the U.I.C. knew that the pitcher who took the mound to warm up was our starting pitcher, and not a substitue. I agree that if it were a substitute, then rule 3-1-2 would be in effect and there would be a requirment to pitch to the first batter...

The same would be true if it were a starting pitcher who had been previously substituted and was then coming back in under Rule 3-1-3 as a re-entry substitution. A re-entry substitution, I believe, is subject to Rule 3-1-2 pitching requirements even for the original F1 pitcher who is re-entering. Did I say that right?

[Edited by Jim Beltz on Dec 7th, 2002 at 09:00 AM]

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Tim C

Under FED and OBR a relief pitcher must face one batter or retire a base runner before being replaced. THAT’S THE LIST!

Actually, Tee, I believe the relief pitcher has to either face a batter or retire the side, not merely retire a runner. Merely retiring a runner is not enough.

That is, if there's only 1 out and he picks off a runner, he still needs to complete his requirement to pitch to a batter or pick off another runner to retire the side..............


Freix

[jicecone]

"Actually in this particular game (our 4th game in the State Tournament) the umpire imposed a forfeit on us."

In a State Tournament? This guy should be made to forfeit his cetification to officiate. Why do officials insist on being the center of attention and make rulings up that dont exist. Unless there was some Tourament rule, I cant imagine your team having to forfiet for this. Even then!!!!!!??

[Bfair]

If it occurred as explained then it was certainly a blown call by the official.
Still, the team had the opportunity to protest the ruling---
which is not only their right, but their responsibility.

I find it hard to believe the official hasn't discussed it with others by now.
There's little doubt he has looked this one up in the book and is now walking around with his tail between his legs.


Freix

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jim Beltz
Starting pitcher F1 who has been pitching the entire game, goes out to the mound in inning number 5 and begins to warm up. After he has delivered one (1) warm up pitch it is discovered that the pitcher is out of availible innings to pitch ( this is a 12 year old, Junior Baseball League). (snip)

Can anyone out there site a case or ruling that can clear this up for me?

[Edited by Jim Beltz on Dec 6th, 2002 at 12:19 PM]

What? You didn't believe my answer on the NFHS site?

For specific reference, see case 3.1.2B

[Jim Beltz]

It isn't that I didn't believe your response on the NFHS site, it is just that I was looking for additional corroboration. I agree, and understand your post, and I thank you for it.

You site Case 3.1.2b for reference. Is this the 2002 case book or a prior year? This actually looks more like a Rule Book citation, and the 2002 NFHS Rule book does not have a Rule 3.1.2b, though it does have a 3-1-1b.

Thanks for your help.

[GarthB]

Mr. Beltz:

When it comes to the NFHS, Casebook references utilize periods between numbers and Rulebook references utilize dashes between numbers.

Thus 3.1.2b is a Casebook reference and 3-1-2b would have been a Rulebook reference.

GB