Improper Batter

[JefferMC]

As you might guess, I was keeping score for the team on defense during this "interesting situation." I didn't offer any solutions, I just pointed out that the batter was not entitled to the slot she was batting in, noting that she was in the 10th slot, where the player she replaced had been and that in that slot she would never legally bat. I then stood back an left it to them to to resolve. When he came back and said that they were going to make the count 0-0 on the batter and make her the legal substitute for 1, I only asked "are you putting the runner back on third?" to which the answer was "yes." Heck, I thought I knew what to do about BOO, but I didn't have a clue about illegal substitution. My rulebook was at home.

I never saw her score anyway, I was trying to get to the coach from the moment #8 turned so that I could see her number.

I think I saw 6 umpires at this two-field tournament. At least half of them I had pegged as small-ball umpires (pointing the finger and shooting the bow). I don't remember what camp these two were in. Other than this screw-up, I thought they did a good job.

DP/Flex confuses everyone, but I'm not sure how anybody messed it up this way.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

DP/Flex confuses everyone, but I'm not sure how anybody messed it up this way.

It really doesn't have to. The DP/FLEX rule is really relatively simple, people just somehow make it confusing.

[JefferMC]

For my own mind, I've summarized DP/Flex this way:

1) Flex is a defensive only position, it never bats.
2) DP is an offensive position, with the option of also replacing any defensive player on the field without a declared "substitution."
3) You can't have one without the other.

Does that cover it?

[bigwes68]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

For my own mind, I've summarized DP/Flex this way:

1) Flex is a defensive only position, it never bats.
2) DP is an offensive position, with the option of also replacing any defensive player on the field without a declared "substitution."
3) You can't have one without the other.

Does that cover it?

Mostly. You might also throw in:

4) The Flex may bat or run, but only for the DP. In this case, the DP has left the game (but re-entry rule still applies).

And technically, if the Flex is batting for the DP, then you are down to a 9-player lineup and, in that case, you CAN have one without the other.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by bigwes68

Mostly. You might also throw in:

4) The Flex may bat or run, but only for the DP. In this case, the DP has left the game (but re-entry rule still applies).

And technically, if the Flex is batting for the DP, then you are down to a 9-player lineup and, in that case, you CAN have one without the other.

I think I would re-write that as:

4) The Flex may substitute for the DP.

I thought about adding that to begin with, but...

a) I was trying to keep it as simple as possible (but no simpler)
b) If you consider that the Flex doesn't actually have a batting order slot, then really we're talking about a normal substitution event
c) Once the Flex has substituted for the DP, you don't really have DP/Flex anymore, you pretty much have a normal player, so you don't really have one without the other.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

b) If you consider that the Flex doesn't actually have a batting order slot, then really we're talking about a normal substitution event.

Only from the perspective of the DP. It is not a substitution event for FLEX. She has not left or re-entered; her re-entry status is unaffected.

[Skahtboi]

It is actually easiest to think of it this way. If the FLEX is playing defense, then no matter what other job that position assumes (i.e. batting, running), then that player has never been subsitituted for. The FLEX's primary job is to play defense.

The DP's primary job is to play offense, so, if the DP is playing offense, it doesn't matter what other job that position takes (playing defense) they are still not substituted for.

Now, if either the DP (offense) or the FLEX (defense) are not doing their primary jobs, they have been substituted for and are entitled one re-entry.

And we have now successfully hijacked this thread.

[CecilOne]

I.Basics
DP/FLEX must be known (shown on lineup) before the start of the game and the PU must track all changes. FLEX must be listed on the lineup in the 10th spot, DP anywhere in the other 9 (batting order) spots. Eligible players may substitute for the DP or for the FLEX.

II.Provisions
1.DP starts on offense, FLEX starts on defense.
2.If not in starting function, not in game.
3.DP and FLEX cannot be in batting order at same time.
4.FLEX can only bat in the DP slot.
5.DP and FLEX can play defense at the same time.
6.In #5, the player not on defense still bats.

III. Comments
DP/FLEX switches change the number of players actively in the game,but do not change the batting order and are not "substitutions".

DP/FLEX switches are not "substitutions", but if either leaves the game and returns, that is a reentry.