kicked ball to DBT

[Tru_in_Blu]

Recent discussion on this ASA Rules & Clarification scenario:

Play 2: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

The above is from 2009.

Our specific point of discussion was that USSSA would only allow an award of 1 base versus 2 bases. With some opinion about a ball that was in the control of the fielder being thrown out of bounds instead of a ball not in control being kicked out of bounds.

I don't do USSSA, so can't debate the point. Any U-trip umps in here?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Recent discussion on this ASA Rules & Clarification scenario:

Play 2: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

The above is from 2009.

Our specific point of discussion was that USSSA would only allow an award of 1 base versus 2 bases. With some opinion about a ball that was in the control of the fielder being thrown out of bounds instead of a ball not in control being kicked out of bounds.

I don't do USSSA, so can't debate the point. Any U-trip umps in here?

What is there different in the USSSA rules which is being cited by the other(s) ?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What is there different in the USSSA rules which is being cited by the other(s) ?

He don't need no steenkin' citations. He sez:

Accidentally kicking the ball out of play and throwing the ball (player has control) out of play should be ruled differently. USA obviously doesn’t get it among may [sic] other things.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I found USSSA rules on line. These are the only 1 base awards listed.

D. One base:
1. If a pitch by the pitcher from the pitching position on the pitcher’s
plate goes into a dead-ball area, becomes blocked (unless blocked by
the offensive team), or lodges in an Umpire’s equipment.
2. If a fielder loses possession of the ball on a tag play and the ball
enters dead-ball area.
3. If forced from the base occupied by a following runner who must
advance because a batter receives a fourth ball, is hit by a pitched ball
or hits a fair ball which becomes dead.
4. If a runner is attempting to steal or the runner is forced from the base
occupied by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the
catcher or any fielder obstructed a batter (such as stepping on or
across home plate, pushing the batter to reach the pitch, or touching
the bat). Instances may occur when the infraction may be ignored or
when the batter may be awarded first base.
5. If the fielder unintentionally carries a live ball into dead-ball territory.

Maybe our guy remembers #2 above and got it confused. I don't know.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I found USSSA rules on line. These are the only 1 base awards listed.

D. One base:
1. If a pitch by the pitcher from the pitching position on the pitcher’s
plate goes into a dead-ball area, becomes blocked (unless blocked by
the offensive team), or lodges in an Umpire’s equipment.
2. If a fielder loses possession of the ball on a tag play and the ball enters dead-ball area.
3. If forced from the base occupied by a following runner who must
advance because a batter receives a fourth ball, is hit by a pitched ball
or hits a fair ball which becomes dead.
4. If a runner is attempting to steal or the runner is forced from the base
occupied by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the
catcher or any fielder obstructed a batter (such as stepping on or
across home plate, pushing the batter to reach the pitch, or touching
the bat). Instances may occur when the infraction may be ignored or
when the batter may be awarded first base.
5. If the fielder unintentionally carries a live ball into dead-ball territory.

Maybe our guy remembers #2 above and got it confused. I don't know.

I don't know what the USSSA rule says for the award, but NFHS says here that the award would be one base from the moment the ball enters that dead-ball area, not the moment the fielder lost possession. Is the USSSA award the same, one base from when it goes out of play?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I don't know what the USSSA rule says for the award, but NFHS says here that the award would be one base from the moment the ball enters that dead-ball area, not the moment the fielder lost possession. Is the USSSA award the same, one base from when it goes out of play?

Manny, are you replying the the section you highlighted in red, or the scenario in the OP?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

He don't need no steenkin' citations. He sez:

Accidentally kicking the ball out of play and throwing the ball (player has control) out of play should be ruled differently. USA obviously doesn’t get it among may [sic] other things.

Oh, a troll !

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Recent discussion on this ASA Rules & Clarification scenario:

Play 2: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

The above is from 2009.

Our specific point of discussion was that USSSA would only allow an award of 1 base versus 2 bases. With some opinion about a ball that was in the control of the fielder being thrown out of bounds instead of a ball not in control being kicked out of bounds.

I don't do USSSA, so can't debate the point. Any U-trip umps in here?

i asked a USSSA UIC and he said "No different in USSSA and NFHS "