Play on or dead ball

[Andy]

First of all, let me say that I am absolutely sympathetic to your need to get outs in a game like the one you describe.....

That being said, I read your description of the play as a live ball, play on. From your description, the batted ball passed F3 and F4 (and I'm assuming F9) had no opportunity to make a play.

I've only hear the straight line between two fielders theory used in reference to base umpire positioning and when the BU is considered "behind" the infielders.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Andy

First of all, let me say that I am absolutely sympathetic to your need to get outs in a game like the one you describe.....

That being said, I read your description of the play as a live ball, play on. From your description, the batted ball passed F3 and F4 (and I'm assuming F9) had no opportunity to make a play.

I've only hear the straight line between two fielders theory used in reference to base umpire positioning and when the BU is considered "behind" the infielders.

This doesn't matter.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

This doesn't matter.

Actually it could have an impact. If this were a line drive, F9 could be playing shallow and have an opportunity to make a play. IIRC the rules does read "no other fielder", not no other infielder.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Actually it could have an impact. If this were a line drive, F9 could be playing shallow and have an opportunity to make a play. IIRC the rules does read "no other fielder", not no other infielder.

Get some more input on this.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Get some more input on this.

Here is a situation that could happen. R2 at second, R1 at first. R2 has been taking a big lead off the base, so F8 is coming in behind the runner, trying to pick off R2 as she returns to the base. When she goes back she only goes slightly onto the outfield grass. B3 hits a line drive which is passes F6 (who is in front of the baseline, but hits R2 going from second to third. Had the ball not hit R2, it would have gone right to F8, who would have had a very possible throw to second for a force, or throw to first for the out. Are you saying that because F8 is not an infielder, we ignore this, even though the rule book is clear "... or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out."

Today I had an outfielder make a force out at second base, and had an out for a runner hit by a line drive between first and second (F4 could possibly have made a play, as the ball was close to where she could have reached.)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Here is a situation that could happen. R2 at second, R1 at first. R2 has been taking a big lead off the base, so F8 is coming in behind the runner, trying to pick off R2 as she returns to the base. When she goes back she only goes slightly onto the outfield grass. B3 hits a line drive which is passes F6 (who is in front of the baseline, but hits R2 going from second to third. Had the ball not hit R2, it would have gone right to F8, who would have had a very possible throw to second for a force, or throw to first for the out. Are you saying that because F8 is not an infielder, we ignore this, even though the rule book is clear "... or if it passes an infielder and any fielder has an opportunity to make an out."

If that happens you have a really stupid defensive alignment. Don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

If that happens you have a really stupid defensive alignment. Don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen.

His is slightly out there, but I'll take it into standard softball. R1 on 1st when B2 hits a sharp liner to shallow left. F3 is playing inside the diamond and F9 is at the standard shallow depth where she will have a play on the BR. The ball hits R1. Now, from your reply it seemed to be you were arguing that this is not interference. But the rules says F9 having a play on the BR is the only condition for interference. Perhaps you could clarify your position on this.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I've only hear the straight line between two fielders theory used in reference to base umpire positioning and when the BU is considered "behind" the infielders.

This^^^^^^

The rule is that the runner is not out if the batted ball passes a fielder and another fielder does not have an opportunity to make an out. IMO, that would be a fielder in the general vicinity with a possible chance field the batted ball.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This^^^^^^

The rule is that the runner is not out if the batted ball passes a fielder and another fielder does not have an opportunity to make an out. IMO, that would be a fielder in the general vicinity with a possible chance field the batted ball.

This still brings up of how we interpret the passed an infield. Am I safe in assuming that when F3 is playing in and F4 is playing back, and the ball goes directly between them, that the ball has passed F3, therefore the ball remains live unless F4 (or possibly F9) would have the ability to make an out.

Under this interpretation, I definitely kicked this call with my partner.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

This still brings up of how we interpret the passed an infield. Am I safe in assuming that when F3 is playing in and F4 is playing back, and the ball goes directly between them, that the ball has passed F3, therefore the ball remains live unless F4 (or possibly F9) would have the ability to make an out.

Under this interpretation, I definitely kicked this call with my partner.

Pass generally means through or within reach. If there was no possibility for the fielder making a play then it did not pass for purposes of this rule.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

This still brings up of how we interpret the passed an infield. Am I safe in assuming that when F3 is playing in and F4 is playing back, and the ball goes directly between them, that the ball has passed F3, therefore the ball remains live unless F4 (or possibly F9) would have the ability to make an out.

Under this interpretation, I definitely kicked this call with my partner.

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill by looking for specifics to guide your judgment. You seem to be searching for someone to offer a specific distance or circumstance and I don't believe you are going to get that or that is even necessary.

As Rich and I have noted, it is your judgment as to whether a player may have had the opportunity to make a play on the batted ball. Just the ability to get to the ball, not an absolute execution of an out.

[Linknblue]

In the OP I think the question is...........If no one, infielders or outfielders, had a play on the ball because they couldn't have reached it and it hit the runner, is it still a dead ball out or do we play on cuz no one could have made a play....in our wonderful judgement?

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill by looking for specifics to guide your judgment. You seem to be searching for someone to offer a specific distance or circumstance and I don't believe you are going to get that or that is even necessary.

As Rich and I have noted, it is your judgment as to whether a player may have had the opportunity to make a play on the batted ball. Just the ability to get to the ball, not an absolute execution of an out.

The rule states another fielder has an opportunity to make an out. I'm almost certain, I had to look it up a week or so ago for reference

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

The rule states another fielder has an opportunity to make an out. I'm almost certain, I had to look it up a week or so ago for reference

That is applicable to a secondary fielder after the ball passes another defender. Rich and I were referring to the primary fielder which the ball has passed

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That is applicable to a secondary fielder after the ball passes another defender. Rich and I were referring to the primary fielder which the ball has passed

Aha. Sorry.