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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 04, 2005, 12:35am
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R1, R2. Pitch gets stuck in backstop fence, but the catcher easily gets it out. R2 advances to third on the play.

Do we call dead ball and award all runners 1 base at the TOP, or is this just considered "temporarily stuck" and we play on?
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 12:54am
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I personally would call it dead immediately. There would not be much doubt if the catcher struggled with trying to pick up the ball because it was lodged in the fence.

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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 01:06am
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Quote:
Originally posted by largeone59
R1, R2. Pitch gets stuck in backstop fence, but the catcher easily gets it out. R2 advances to third on the play.

Do we call dead ball and award all runners 1 base at the TOP, or is this just considered "temporarily stuck" and we play on?
I guess it's a matter of semantics; what's "stuck"? And what's "easily"?

If the ball is wedged in the fence 3 ft. off the ground, it's "lodged" and an immediate dead ball.

If the ball is "stuck" on the ground at a fold/crease at the bottom of the fence & F2 can and does retrieve it with no more effort than if the fence wasn't folded/creased there at all, play on, it ain't "lodged".
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 02:40am
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It was on a pitch. The ball got stuck about face-high to the catcher. "Easily gets it out" meant that he did not have to struggle with it one bit, just took it out of the fence.

If we call it dead, do we have a 1 base award along with this?
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 04:26am
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Quote:
Originally posted by largeone59
It was on a pitch. The ball got stuck about face-high to the catcher. "Easily gets it out" meant that he did not have to struggle with it one bit, just took it out of the fence.

If we call it dead, do we have a 1 base award along with this?
Yes!

I agree the ball should have been called dead immediately. You had direct knowledge that the ball was indeed lodged.

On plays in the outfield for example, the fielder plays the ball even though it may have been lodged under the fence, the ball would remain in play. The same for the catcher if you could not see that the ball was lodged and he retrieved it with, as cb said, "no more effort than if the fence wasn't folded/creased there at all".
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 06:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by largeone59
R1, R2. Pitch gets stuck in backstop fence, but the catcher easily gets it out. R2 advances to third on the play.

Do we call dead ball and award all runners 1 base at the TOP, or is this just considered "temporarily stuck" and we play on?
In your own words, the ball was "stuck". Lodged, wedged, not free to roam on it's own, hanging on for dear life, lonely in a world of its own, or any other thing you want to call it.

Dead Ball, all runners 1 base award.

No semantics involved. If the ball is restricted from free movement, ITS STUCK, kill it, save yourself any arguments and move on.

This applies to anywhere on the field.


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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:07am
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If you leave the ball live because the catcher can extract it from the fence, whats going to happen an inning later when the ball becomes lodged high enough where the ball can't be extracted because catch can't reach it?
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:22am
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Well, in THIS case, it appears there are no semantics involved: the ball is clearly held in an unnatural position by the fence. We don't care how easily it was removed, it's dead, award the base.

The point of my earlier post was that we [at least I] officiate on some fields which are less-than-perfectly enclosed, and sometimes there may be some judgment involved in determining if the ball is "lodged" or not.
"Restricted from free movement" won't necessarily cut it: the fence does that if the ball is just lying up against it. "Not on the natural ground" probably doesn't either: we've got some backstops where the ball could land on a wall in front of a fence, but off the ground, and be picked up with no more trouble than if the ball was at the catcher's feet.

All that said, "lodged" is a lot like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it."
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 07:24am
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cb, my post was directed at the original sitch, not yours. In yours, I would rule as you did. I meant the ball thats lodged 3 feet off the ground as opposed to 8 feet off the ground.

My bad, I should have been a bit more clear .
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 08:03am
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I thought your reply was quite clear, based on the information provided by 59. And I agree with you. If the ball is lodged at any height, it is a dead ball. 59 made no reference to the ball lying on the natural ground, so your reply to his post was accurate.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 08:08am
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59,
I am guessing that you saw the ball in the backstop before the catcher got to it and I would have ruled dead ball before he even had a chance to try to extricate it from the fence ( to make a play, that is ). That removes any chance of it being easily removed from a temporary position or anyone questioning that it should or should not have been ruled dead. Once you call it - it's dead.
In my humble opinion.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 08:29am
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aevans: no bad, your posts were very clear.
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 09:18am
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I would do same, dead ball immediately, award 1 base from TOP for applicable runners
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 10:16am
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Good, that's what i did.

Thanks guys
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Old Wed May 04, 2005, 11:55am
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Originally posted by largeone59

R1, R2. Pitch gets stuck in backstop fence, but the catcher easily gets it out. R2 advances to third on the play.

Do we call dead ball and award all runners 1 base at the TOP, or is this just considered "temporarily stuck" and we play on?


The proper mechanic when the ball goes out of play or in your case stuck in the backstop is to call TIME.

Most of us have got in the habbit of calling Dead ball but as mentioned the proper mechanic is to call TIME First and then make the awards.

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