"Traveling" Signal at snap

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I received a phone call last night with this play:

A breaks the huddle and trips (A88, A80, A85) go out to a wing.

All A players come set for one second; however, once that's done, A88, A80, and A85 start doing the traveling/false start signal. The ball is snapped while they are doing this.

Seems really straight forward to me as I have a flag. But, maybe I'm missing something.

Crew working the game last Friday didn't flag it and a crew working their underclass game on Monday flagged it.

Thoughts?

Are eligible receivers required to stand completely still?
Did the movement simulate the snap?

What's the flag for? Exactly what rule was broken?

[bigjohn]

7-2-6

[REFANDUMP]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

7-2-6

How does this not say that players must remain motionless for one second prior to the snap ?? Once again, we use common sense here but to me it appears the rule is cut and dried.

[bcl1127]

I am having a hard time seeing why this is even a discussion, if you think that this is a flag, then I hope your WRs never signal to you that they are on or off the line, because if they do when someone is in motion, you would have two men in motion from your logic.

I cannot believe something like this is 3 pages deep already.

This is no flag, maybe if we felt like it, it could be a talk to, but I would not flag this.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

How does this not say that players must remain motionless for one second prior to the snap ?? Once again, we use common sense here but to me it appears the rule is cut and dried.

Please, the first time you call on a Friday, go out there, and flag the receivers every time the WR turns his head or wiggles his fingers and then isn't statuesque for a full second before the ball is snapped. Then come back here and tell us what your CC had to say about it.

You have your head buried in the sand trying hard to win an argument, instead of listening to what is being said and using that common sense you claim "we" use.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

How does this not say that players must remain motionless for one second prior to the snap ?? Once again, we use common sense here but to me it appears the rule is cut and dried.

Common sense is never cut and dried.

[REFANDUMP]

The rule is cut and dried. Common sense says it should not be officated that way. I have never said it should. There is a difference in movement that is common to the game of football and movements that are not. That in my judgement is the distinction, and the way the rulesmakers want the games officiated. In my opinion, recievers that are making "traveling" signals are not making movements common to the game of football. I would flag this movement. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, and it's obvious there are people on both sides of this discussion.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

The rule is cut and dried. Common sense says it should not be officated that way. I have never said it should. There is a difference in movement that is common to the game of football and movements that are not. That in my judgement is the distinction, and the way the rulesmakers want the games officiated. In my opinion, recievers that are making "traveling" signals are not making movements common to the game of football. I would flag this movement. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, and it's obvious there are people on both sides of this discussion.

I understand that you will not believe anyone here... and honestly I don't blame you for that - you have no idea what the level of experience is with people here. I would like you to bring this to your higher ups and ask, though... especially if you're on a crew. And let us know what they say.

If rolling your arms is illegal, what type of signals would you allow the WR's to make to their QB (or vice versa). And which would you not, and why does this one cross your line? This could easily be as simple as the WR's telling the QB they heard and understood the audible just called. Who knows. You mentioned "not natural to football"... don't ALL signals have to be not natural to football, so that they are read as signals?

At MOST, this is a "cut that out", and even then I think you're over officiating.

[REFANDUMP]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I understand that you will not believe anyone here... and honestly I don't blame you for that - you have no idea what the level of experience is with people here. I would like you to bring this to your higher ups and ask, though... especially if you're on a crew. And let us know what they say.

If rolling your arms is illegal, what type of signals would you allow the WR's to make to their QB (or vice versa). And which would you not, and why does this one cross your line? This could easily be as simple as the WR's telling the QB they heard and understood the audible just called. Who knows. You mentioned "not natural to football"... don't ALL signals have to be not natural to football, so that they are read as signals?

At MOST, this is a "cut that out", and even then I think you're over officiating.

I'm not the only one not believing anyone here, as there are others who believe as I do, that this is a foul. You're choosing not to believe them. I will be contacting my state association to get their opinion on this play, as I do wish to be calling this properly should it occur. As to my experience, I am a white hat on a high school crew for over 25 years. I don't claim to be better than anyone else when it comes to officiating, but I do have a understanding of the game and believe I am a good official. I have a track record that would indicate that others agree with me. We have a difference of opinion on this play, and that's ok. I've enjoyed the discussion and will try to get an opinion from my superiors and use it as a learning experience.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

are eligible receivers required to stand completely still?
Did the movement simulate the snap?

What's the flag for? Exactly what rule was broken?

7-2-7

[mbyron]

bigjohn: 7-2-6 doesn't warrant a flag, because these players DID come set. THEN they started moving their hands.

Tanner: you're calling this MOTION?

[bigjohn]

really? what the he## does shall remain stationary, mean then??

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

really? what the he## does shall remain stationary, mean then??

It means motionless. The requirement is one second, which all 11 satisfied. Did you read the play?

[bigjohn]

yeah, did you read the rule

and shall remain means once they stop they can't start moving their hands.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

yeah, did you read the rule

and shall remain means once they stop they can't start moving their hands.

Damn, read the whole sentence...

AND SHALL REMAIN ... FOR AT LEAST ONE SECOND.

The way you're reading this prohibits players going in motion entirely.