Whose Ball Following This Play

[The Stiff]

Federation Rules — Fourth down and 10 from midfield. A's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where A2 picks it up at the A 45 yard line and throws an incomplete pass. Where will the ball be put in play next?

[mbyron]

Depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean R muffs it back behind the NZ. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

Since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbyron

depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean r muffs it back behind the nz. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.

+1

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean R muffs it back behind the NZ. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

Since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.

...and after R coach goes nuts and draws a USC flag, it will be A ball 1/10 at the B 35...

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

...and after R coach goes nuts and draws a USC flag, it will be A ball 1/10 at the B 35...

I have seen this play discussed many times but nobody has ever confirmed seeing it happen.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean R muffs it back behind the NZ. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

Since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.

Does the muffing of a punt constitute a change of possession that makes it illegal to throw a forward pass?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jchamp

Does the muffing of a punt constitute a change of possession that makes it illegal to throw a forward pass?

No. Muffing by definition is an unsuccessful attempt to secure possession. 2-27

[mtridge]

What happens if A threw the pass past the LOS to an Ineligible receiver?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mtridge

What happens if A threw the pass past the LOS to an Ineligible receiver?

So the new play is as follows:

Fourth down and 10 from midfield. K's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where K2 picks it up at the K45 yard line, runs to the R48, and throws an incomplete pass to ineligible K79. Where will the ball be put in play next?

The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. IFP carries a LOD, so it will be R's ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

So the new play is as follows:

Fourth down and 10 from midfield. K's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where K2 picks it up at the K45 yard line, runs to the R48, and throws an incomplete pass to ineligible K79. Where will the ball be put in play next?

The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. IFP carries a LOD, so it will be R's ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.

Think about that part again (in the context of a play where a new series would have been awarded absent the IFP...)

[CT1]

Originally Posted by mbyron

So the new play is as follows:

Fourth down and 10 from midfield. K's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where K2 picks it up at the K45 yard line, runs to the R48, and throws an incomplete pass to ineligible K79. Where will the ball be put in play next?

The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. IFP carries a LOD, so it will be R's ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.

I hope you meant "K's ball".

This is realistically a COP play, and the LOD aspect of the penalty has no effect.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by CT1

I hope you meant "K's ball".

This is realistically a COP play, and the LOD aspect of the penalty has no effect.

When did team possession change?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

When did team possession change?

No need to be obtuse... he didn't say possession changed, he said it was realistically a COP play. Probably not the best word, I'd have gone with essentially instead of realistically. But you know what he meant.

(And if you don't ... answer my question, I was going to the same place he was, I was just trying to walk the poster there instead of just giving the answer).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Think about that part again (in the context of a play where a new series would have been awarded absent the IFP...)

Whoops. New series when R touches the kick beyond the NZ. I know better.

Correct answer:

The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. Since R touched the kick beyond the NZ, K is awarded a new series. IFP's LOD is ignored, so it will be K ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

No need to be obtuse... he didn't say possession changed, he said it was realistically a COP play. Probably not the best word, I'd have gone with essentially instead of realistically. But you know what he meant.

Actually I didn't, but if i'd been more awake when I read it, I would've. I'd misread a detail of what he wrote, got onto the wrong track.