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The Stiff Wed Aug 29, 2012 02:03pm
Whose Ball Following This Play
 
Federation Rules — Fourth down and 10 from midfield. A's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where A2 picks it up at the A 45 yard line and throws an incomplete pass. Where will the ball be put in play next?

mbyron Wed Aug 29, 2012 02:29pm
Depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean R muffs it back behind the NZ. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

Since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.

Welpe Wed Aug 29, 2012 03:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 852807)
depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean r muffs it back behind the nz. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.
+1

Tom.OH Wed Aug 29, 2012 03:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 852807)
Depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean R muffs it back behind the NZ. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

Since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.
...and after R coach goes nuts and draws a USC flag, it will be A ball 1/10 at the B 35...

bisonlj Wed Aug 29, 2012 05:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.OH (Post 852812)
...and after R coach goes nuts and draws a USC flag, it will be A ball 1/10 at the B 35...
I have seen this play discussed many times but nobody has ever confirmed seeing it happen.

jchamp Wed Aug 29, 2012 06:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 852807)
Depends who muffs it. I'm assuming you mean R muffs it back behind the NZ. In that case, whoever ends with possession will be awarded a new series. 5-1-3f

Since the legal forward pass is incomplete, the ball will return to the previous spot. A 1/10 @ 50, clock on the snap.
Does the muffing of a punt constitute a change of possession that makes it illegal to throw a forward pass?

mbyron Wed Aug 29, 2012 06:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchamp (Post 852833)
Does the muffing of a punt constitute a change of possession that makes it illegal to throw a forward pass?
No. Muffing by definition is an unsuccessful attempt to secure possession. 2-27

mtridge Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:23pm
What happens if A threw the pass past the LOS to an Ineligible receiver?

mbyron Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtridge (Post 852894)
What happens if A threw the pass past the LOS to an Ineligible receiver?
So the new play is as follows:
Fourth down and 10 from midfield. K's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where K2 picks it up at the K45 yard line, runs to the R48, and throws an incomplete pass to ineligible K79. Where will the ball be put in play next?
The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. IFP carries a LOD, so it will be R's ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.

MD Longhorn Thu Aug 30, 2012 02:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 852903)
So the new play is as follows:
Fourth down and 10 from midfield. K's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where K2 picks it up at the K45 yard line, runs to the R48, and throws an incomplete pass to ineligible K79. Where will the ball be put in play next?
The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. IFP carries a LOD, so it will be R's ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.
Think about that part again (in the context of a play where a new series would have been awarded absent the IFP...)

CT1 Thu Aug 30, 2012 02:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 852903)
So the new play is as follows:
Fourth down and 10 from midfield. K's punt is muffed on the R 40 and rebounds back behind the neutral zone, where K2 picks it up at the K45 yard line, runs to the R48, and throws an incomplete pass to ineligible K79. Where will the ball be put in play next?
The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. IFP carries a LOD, so it will be R's ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.
I hope you meant "K's ball".

This is realistically a COP play, and the LOD aspect of the penalty has no effect.

Robert Goodman Thu Aug 30, 2012 04:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 852915)
I hope you meant "K's ball".

This is realistically a COP play, and the LOD aspect of the penalty has no effect.
When did team possession change?

MD Longhorn Thu Aug 30, 2012 04:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 852918)
When did team possession change?
No need to be obtuse... he didn't say possession changed, he said it was realistically a COP play. Probably not the best word, I'd have gone with essentially instead of realistically. But you know what he meant.

(And if you don't ... answer my question, I was going to the same place he was, I was just trying to walk the poster there instead of just giving the answer).

mbyron Thu Aug 30, 2012 07:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 852910)
Think about that part again (in the context of a play where a new series would have been awarded absent the IFP...)
Whoops. New series when R touches the kick beyond the NZ. I know better.

Correct answer:

The ineligible downfield (if K79 was downfield) and illegal touching (if K79 touched the pass) are ignored since we have an illegal forward pass. K's recovery and advance are legal. The foul for IFP will be enforced from the spot of the foul, 5 yards, back to the K47. Since R touched the kick beyond the NZ, K is awarded a new series. IFP's LOD is ignored, so it will be K ball, 1/10 @ K47, clock on the snap.

Robert Goodman Thu Aug 30, 2012 08:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 852919)
No need to be obtuse... he didn't say possession changed, he said it was realistically a COP play. Probably not the best word, I'd have gone with essentially instead of realistically. But you know what he meant.
Actually I didn't, but if i'd been more awake when I read it, I would've. I'd misread a detail of what he wrote, got onto the wrong track.


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