Legal Snap?

[bigjohn]

and by many that it is not legal, hmmmmmmmmmm!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

and by many that it is not legal, hmmmmmmmmmm!

I have a solution. Get your behind off the sideline and do it for yourself. Then tell us what your peers say and how you call the game. It is a lot easier to run your mouth at what should be done and you have never done it once. Because if you call the wrong thing unlike here, you might not go back or work that level you want again. This was a legal snap and you have not shown anything that suggests otherwise, but your typical complaining about things you are unwilling to do.

Peace

[bigjohn]

There are guys reading this and some have posted that think you are wrong, Mr Rutledge. They say the snap is not quick enough or immediate. That is not just my interpretation. I also have talked with officials that work games every Friday and some that have even done State Finals, that do not agree with you. So it is like I always say, the rules change every Friday night depending on the crew and there skill set and interprtations.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

There are guys reading this and some have posted that think you are wrong, Mr Rutledge. They say the snap is not quick enough or immediate. That is not just my interpretation. I also have talked with officials that work games every Friday and some that have even done State Finals, that do not agree with you. So it is like I always say, the rules change every Friday night depending on the crew and there skill set and interprtations.

So they think I am wrong? Good for them. My question is what levels do they work? What positions do they hold in their state, are they a clinician, an assignor or a rules interpreter? There are also people here that think you should call something without seeing it too, what does that prove? You are the one that started this and there are a lot of others that seem to agree that this is a legal snap. And again if you have never had to put your behind on the line to rule on these plays, I at least have respect for those that officiate. You are just a baby that wants to debate things your big behind is unwilling to do yourself. If you think the only rules discussions I have or others have is on this site, you have no idea. Or how much some of us go back and forth with interpretations and if we dispute we go to those higher up to get clarification. But when you are sitting in the cozy press box you would never know that.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jrutledge

so they think i am wrong? Good for them. My question is what levels do they work? What positions do they hold in their state, are they a clinician, an assignor or a rules interpreter? There are also people here that think you should call something without seeing it too, what does that prove? You are the one that started this and there are a lot of others that seem to agree that this is a legal snap. And again if you have never had to put your behind on the line to rule on these plays, i at least have respect for those that officiate. You are just a baby that wants to debate things your big behind is unwilling to do yourself. If you think the only rules discussions i have or others have is on this site, you have no idea. Or how much some of us go back and forth with interpretations and if we dispute we go to those higher up to get clarification. But when you are sitting in the cozy press box you would never know that.

peace

+1

[bigjohn]

Back on the sidelines this year, sir. My HC thought he needed my rule knowledge and game abilities on the field.

You and I know it all comes down to what the crew that is on the field wants to call, so it really doesn't matter what you or I think or say. I am just saying I don't think the snap in this video is a legal and there were officials that agreed with me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Back on the sidelines this year, sir. My HC thought he needed my rule knowledge and game abilities on the field.

You and I know it all comes down to what the crew that is on the field wants to call, so it really doesn't matter what you or I think or say. I am just saying I don't think the snap in this video is a legal and there were officials that agreed with me.

We are not talking about crews that worked your games. We are looking at a rather old video and we are ruling on what happen in the video. Of course different crews are going to be different in ability that is why some are not working at all at this time of the year and never will be like crews I am on and others I know well. And on my crew I have three football IHSA Clinicians and if we have any dispute as to what a ruling is, we know where to go to ask above our heads. And the 5 of us run more camps or asked to clinician in football as well as my background as a clinician in basketball. So of course not every crew is going to have that background or knowledge that we would have or others that are similar in your area and other areas. This is why I do not listen to sophomore crews for how to do things in our state. Wow, so you found a couple of people that agree with you. I can show any video and not have 100% of the people agreed with what took place. That is not unusual, but sometimes you can tell those that seem to disagree why they disagree.

Peace

[bigjohn]

Fasinating.

[Jim S]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I agree with everything here except this. The two steps thing is puzzling: that's not in the rule. I agree it's illegal motion, but the ruling has nothing to do with how many steps he took: it's because he's a back in motion and the motion is toward the LOS.

This was actually one of the plays of the day last week. The ruling quoted was that when a QB is not set before the snap after taking one step as part of his shift the foul should be illegal shift. When he takes more than one step he is in motion and the foul is illegal motion. Not that it makes any difference in enforcement.

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Fasinating.

Fascinating...how did you get the the 'm' key unstuck?

So one official agrees with you and 10 do not...and that proves your point?

[bigjohn]

Like Rogers Redding. He basically says slapping the snap is either encroachment or snap infraction, if the snap is slow enough to be slapped, it is not a legal snap.

Here is a play from Redding's NFHS Football Rules. "

Example 3-19 After the ready, all Team A players are set. As A53 snaps the ball, B72 reaches in and knocks the ball away. RULING: The umpire must decide whether the snap was illegal or B72 encroached.

It is highly unlikely the preceding example could occur without a foul. In practicality, for a defensive player to knock the ball away, either the snapper would have to hesitate after lifting the ball making the snap illegal and thus allowing the opponent enough time to touch the ball, or the Team B player would have to put his hand into the neutral zone before the snap."


psu I also posted this.

That is not just my interpretation. I also have talked with officials that work games every Friday and some that have even done State Finals, that do not agree with you.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Like Rogers Redding. He basically says slapping the snap is either encroachment or snap infraction, if the snap is slow enough to be slapped, it is not a legal snap.

Here is a play from Redding's NFHS Football Rules. "

Example 3-19 After the ready, all Team A players are set. As A53 snaps the ball, B72 reaches in and knocks the ball away. RULING: The umpire must decide whether the snap was illegal or B72 encroached.

It is highly unlikely the preceding example could occur without a foul. In practicality, for a defensive player to knock the ball away, either the snapper would have to hesitate after lifting the ball making the snap illegal and thus allowing the opponent enough time to touch the ball, or the Team B player would have to put his hand into the neutral zone before the snap."

Actually what he says is the umpire must decide whether or not there has been an infraction.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. While it's highly unlikely, it could happen and George leaves that door open.

The one thing for sure is, the officials, not some loud mouthed narcissistic assistant coach gets to make that determination.

[bigjohn]

Really?



either the snapper would have to hesitate after lifting the ball making the snap illegal



Sounds pretty cut and dried to me.

[Rich]

Rogers Redding doesn't write the Redding guide.

[bigjohn]

2011 Redding Study Guide to NFHS Football Rules
A 200 page study guide authored by George Demetriou, and originally created by Rogers Redding to break down and review the National Federation of High School



Fair enough, but Ol' George knows his business almost as good as Rut does.