Legal Snap?

[bigjohn]

Driscoll Middle School Trick Play - YouTube

[APG]

Embedded for convenience

[CT1]

The snap is legal, but the play isn't.

From CB 9.9.1 Sit B.:

"(A)ctions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."

Dead ball USC.

[HLin NC]

Pretty sure we saw this last year.

[MD Longhorn]

Nothing wrong with the snap - but his shouting to the coach and the pretense that a snap was not imminent makes this a 15 yarder.

[Jim S]

Originally Posted by CT1

The snap is legal, but the play isn't.

From CB 9.9.1 Sit B.:

"(A)ctions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."

Dead ball USC.

Agreed. There are a number of things wrong with this play. As Ct1 says the play is illegal on it's own. You can normally figure if a coach is involved it's illegal. Also the QB is not set for a second before the snap after his shift. Since he took two steps to get there the foul is illegal motion, not shift. The play should have been calle dead immediately for the USL, but failing this it should have been called back for the motion foul. The crew that allowed this should be ashamed of themselves!

[bigjohn]

SECTION 40 SNAP
ART. 1 . . . A snap is the legal act of passing or handing the ball backward from
its position on the ground.
ART. 2 . . . The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other
than in adjustment. In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous
backward motion of the ball during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s)
of the snapper and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.
ART. 3 . . . The snap ends when the ball touches the ground or any player.


I do not think this snap fits the requirements in 2-40-2 of course the NFHS defines immediate as 3-5 seconds, but I don't agree with that either.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

SECTION 40 SNAP. . . The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other
than in adjustment.

CHECK

In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous

CHECK

backward motion of the ball

CHECK

during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s)
of the snapper

CHECK

and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.

CHECK.

Which part do you believe it doesn't meet the requirements of?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jim S

Agreed. There are a number of things wrong with this play. As Ct1 says the play is illegal on it's own. You can normally figure if a coach is involved it's illegal. Also the QB is not set for a second before the snap after his shift. Since he took two steps to get there the foul is illegal motion, not shift. The play should have been calle dead immediately for the USL, but failing this it should have been called back for the motion foul. The crew that allowed this should be ashamed of themselves!

I agree with everything here except this. The two steps thing is puzzling: that's not in the rule. I agree it's illegal motion, but the ruling has nothing to do with how many steps he took: it's because he's a back in motion and the motion is toward the LOS.

[Jim S]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I agree with everything here except this. The two steps thing is puzzling: that's not in the rule. I agree it's illegal motion, but the ruling has nothing to do with how many steps he took: it's because he's a back in motion and the motion is toward the LOS.

This was actually one of the plays of the day last week. The ruling quoted was that when a QB is not set before the snap after taking one step as part of his shift the foul should be illegal shift. When he takes more than one step he is in motion and the foul is illegal motion. Not that it makes any difference in enforcement.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Driscoll Middle School Trick Play - YouTube

CANADIAN RULING:

Illegal snap. Shut 'er down!

[bigjohn]

shall not:
a. Remove both hands from the ball.
b. Make any movement that simulates a snap.
c. Fail to clearly pause before the snap.
d. Following adjustment, lift or move the ball other than in a legal snap.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

shall not:
a. Remove both hands from the ball.
b. Make any movement that simulates a snap.
c. Fail to clearly pause before the snap.
d. Following adjustment, lift or move the ball other than in a legal snap.

a - he didn't remove both hands from the ball.
b - he didn't make any movement that simulates a snap.
c - he (the center) clearly paused.
d - I recognize that you don't agree that this was a legal snap, and if you have a beef, it's there --- but given that this was a legal snap, he did not lift or move the ball other than in a legal snap.

[bigjohn]

I would say what happened on this play was much closer to a lift than a snap. Any official on the field should be looking for a reason to kill this play and I just gave you an excellent one. Illegal snap.

Why would anyone argue that that was a legal snap?

[jTheUmp]

Because it is a legal snap, for reasons that several other posters have already described to you.

I think this graphic sums it up nicely:
http://ehmsnbc.com/wp-content/upload...dead_horse.jpg