Legal Snap?

[bigjohn]

Driscoll Middle School Trick Play - YouTube

[APG]

Embedded for convenience

[CT1]

The snap is legal, but the play isn't.

From CB 9.9.1 Sit B.:

"(A)ctions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."

Dead ball USC.

[HLin NC]

Pretty sure we saw this last year.

[MD Longhorn]

Nothing wrong with the snap - but his shouting to the coach and the pretense that a snap was not imminent makes this a 15 yarder.

[Jim S]

Originally Posted by CT1

The snap is legal, but the play isn't.

From CB 9.9.1 Sit B.:

"(A)ctions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal."

Dead ball USC.

Agreed. There are a number of things wrong with this play. As Ct1 says the play is illegal on it's own. You can normally figure if a coach is involved it's illegal. Also the QB is not set for a second before the snap after his shift. Since he took two steps to get there the foul is illegal motion, not shift. The play should have been calle dead immediately for the USL, but failing this it should have been called back for the motion foul. The crew that allowed this should be ashamed of themselves!

[bigjohn]

SECTION 40 SNAP
ART. 1 . . . A snap is the legal act of passing or handing the ball backward from
its position on the ground.
ART. 2 . . . The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other
than in adjustment. In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous
backward motion of the ball during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s)
of the snapper and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.
ART. 3 . . . The snap ends when the ball touches the ground or any player.


I do not think this snap fits the requirements in 2-40-2 of course the NFHS defines immediate as 3-5 seconds, but I don't agree with that either.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

SECTION 40 SNAP. . . The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other
than in adjustment.

CHECK

In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous

CHECK

backward motion of the ball

CHECK

during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s)
of the snapper

CHECK

and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.

CHECK.

Which part do you believe it doesn't meet the requirements of?

[Jmuvol]

We did see this last year and it still irritates me that this is shown all over the place as a great and wonderful display of coaching. We make ourselves look bad when we let these types of plays go.

With that said, I still wonder how mr. smart coach would feel if he ran this play and a defensive player came running up and laid out his qb? My guess is he would want us to bail him out and call a foul on the defense...

[bigjohn]

Do not agree that it is quick! or immediately leaves the snapper's hand. It is very slow and deliberate, in my opinion.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jim S

Agreed. There are a number of things wrong with this play. As Ct1 says the play is illegal on it's own. You can normally figure if a coach is involved it's illegal. Also the QB is not set for a second before the snap after his shift. Since he took two steps to get there the foul is illegal motion, not shift. The play should have been calle dead immediately for the USL, but failing this it should have been called back for the motion foul. The crew that allowed this should be ashamed of themselves!

I agree with everything here except this. The two steps thing is puzzling: that's not in the rule. I agree it's illegal motion, but the ruling has nothing to do with how many steps he took: it's because he's a back in motion and the motion is toward the LOS.

[Welpe]

In a pre-game conference with a middle school coach this year, he said he had a trick play where the QB goes in motion.

I said "OK, is that it?"

He said, "Well, I'll yell over to him something along 'Come on, that's not the play!' then he'll go in motion and we'll snap it."

Me: "Sorry coach, not legal."

Him: "I guess we won't run that this week."

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

In a pre-game conference with a middle school coach this year, he said he had a trick play where the QB goes in motion.

I said "OK, is that it?"

He said, "Well, I'll yell over to him something along 'Come on, that's not the play!' then he'll go in motion and we'll snap it."

Me: "Sorry coach, not legal."

Him: "I guess we won't run that this week."

Had a coach run this play in an 8th grade game this season... only he didn't tell us about it beforehand. Luckily for me, when I flagged it, enforced it, and explained it to him, all he said was "huh, I didn't know that".

He also ran a fumblerooski play a couple of times. One that I didn't call because I didn't see what happened (only two officials, not enough eyes) and couldn't tell what had transpired until I was reconstructing it in my mind during the next timeout, and one that I passed on because that team was down 42-0 at the time. I did, however, explain to the coach that his play wasn't legal.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by Jmuvol

With that said, I still wonder how mr. smart coach would feel if he ran this play and a defensive player came running up and laid out his qb?

Like this??? http://youtu.be/kQbAP-K28J8

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Which part do you believe it doesn't meet the requirements of?

In the first video of this thread, my opinion is illegal snap.
The snap is not quick. It is a very slow motion of the right arm.
It is not backwards. There is a discrete lateral motion of the ball as it comes up prior to it going over the snapper's left shoulder. It is very likely that in order for this motion to be possible, the ball would have had to be traveling forward at some point.
It does not immediately leave the snapper's hand. There is a visible pause between when the motion of the snapper's hand ends and the quarterback begins to touch the ball.

The video immediately above, which shows the play "gone bad" actually would fit my definition of a legal snap. While not not "hasty" it was not a slow or discontinuous motion. It was also backwards, and the snapper immediately released the ball to the quarterback.
Then the quarterback got popped. As well he should be, trying to make a travesty of the game.