Just after the snap

[Durham]

Can a DLman swipe the ball after the center starts the snap and force a fumble? Is it legal in Fed? Look for support either way.

[Cobra]

Yes, it is legal but it would be extremely hard for it to occur. If it happened it would probably be encroachment on the defense or a snap infraction.

[MRH]

It is NOT legal in NFHS. Either a snap infraction has occured or it is encroachment.

Some will consider UC if it is encroachment and it happens more than once!

[With_Two_Flakes]

No idea what would be the Fed equivalent reference, but for NCAA, Rule 2-23-1-f states

If the ball is touched by Team B during a legal snap, the ball remains dead and Team B is penalised.
If the ball is touched by Team B during an illegal snap, the ball remains dead and Team A is penalised.

[Durham]

Thanks. Anyone know a fed ruling?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Durham

Thanks. Anyone know a fed ruling?

There is no NFHS ruling or rule against such as the NCAA has. If a defender can pull it off without encroaching, it would be legal, if the snap was legal.

[Durham]

Thank you. I had two friends, they coached against each other in the first round of HS playoffs and one kid pulled it off twice. Once the defense scooped and scored. I told them I would lol into it. Thanks again.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by MRH

It is NOT legal in NFHS. Either a snap infraction has occured or it is encroachment.

No...it could happen though it is not likely.

[HLin NC]

Aw jeez, not this again.

[Durham]

I did not intend to begin a philosophical debate on the issue, I just could not find a rules reference either way. I know how things work on the field, but I was just looking for something in Fed Speak.

[JasonTX]

I only use NCAA rules and for us it's clear that it's illegal. I am curious with the Fed rules if you guys are saying is legal in Fed rules. At what point can a team B player enter the neutral zone? I would think that it would be the same as NCAA where they cannot enter the neutral zone until after the snap. If the ball has not yet left the snappers hands, then the snap is still in progress so any player who swipes at the ball is in the neutral zone. Is that not correct for Fed as well?

[Canned Heat]

I had 2 teams this year try it during the last few kneel downs in 2 contests....told the nose tackle that was attaempting it that if he broke the plain with his hand he'd get pinched for the encroachment. Put an end to it in both cases....FYI these were JV and FR games.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I only use NCAA rules and for us it's clear that it's illegal. I am curious with the Fed rules if you guys are saying is legal in Fed rules. At what point can a team B player enter the neutral zone? I would think that it would be the same as NCAA where they cannot enter the neutral zone until after the snap. If the ball has not yet left the snappers hands, then the snap is still in progress so any player who swipes at the ball is not in the neutral zone. Is that not correct for Fed as well?

B can enter the neutral zone at the snap. The snap starts when the ball is first moved other than an adjustment. So a B player could hit the ball during the snap but he would have to be extremely fast to do so. Most likely he would have to guess the snap count and not react off seeing the ball move.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I only use NCAA rules and for us it's clear that it's illegal. I am curious with the Fed rules if you guys are saying is legal in Fed rules. At what point can a team B player enter the neutral zone? I would think that it would be the same as NCAA where they cannot enter the neutral zone until after the snap. If the ball has not yet left the snappers hands, then the snap is still in progress so any player who swipes at the ball is in the neutral zone. Is that not correct for Fed as well?

Are you saying that in NCAA players can't enter the NZ until the ball has left the snapper's hands? First I've heard of that in any football anywhere, any time!

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Are you saying that in NCAA players can't enter the NZ until the ball has left the snapper's hands? First I've heard of that in any football anywhere, any time!

Poor choice in words on my part. Hitting the ball in NCAA before it leaves the snappers hands is offside. You are correct that when the snap begins a player may enter the NZ, but not slap the ball while it's in the process of being snapped.