Spot enforcement

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

As you can tell, I'm just a lowly line judge. All I do is report the foul and let the WH figure it out.

Don't get me started....

[bkdow]

The ball was not loose and stayed in the QB's possession. Does that change anything?

The down and distance made it a first down.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by bkdow

The ball was not loose and stayed in the QB's possession. Does that change anything?

The down and distance made it a first down.

Pardon me for getting everybody off point. In the case of the OP, the foul would be marked off from the end of the run - which in this case is the 35. As has already been stated, facemask is not Auto-1st down. Since you give the information above, it's 1st and 10.

p.s. - thanks to all for the help with the loose ball. now maybe i can report the foul AND give spot/down/distance.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Don't get me started....

Go ahead, start. This is bad thinking. Everyone on the field is responsible for knowing penalty enforcement.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Go ahead, start. This is bad thinking. Everyone on the field is responsible for knowing penalty enforcement.

I was thrust into a 3-man game last Saturday. I haven't knowingly taken a 3-man game in years, but the 4th official backed out....

I prefer 2 wings and an R 3-man, so that's what we did. I was the Referpire. On a dead ball personal foul that I flagged (on the offense), the play had already reached the LTG. Because I knew I had to signal and also march off the yardage, I hurried and didn't (at first) notice the chains. My L called across and made me aware and as soon as I saw the chains knew why he was calling across.

Rules mistakes are crew mistakes. All 5 officials (or 3 or 4) should know enforcements of every flag they could possibly throw (which means they should know the rules as well as I do).

And I hate to admit it, I had fun working 3-man as I got a good workout (although I'm sure things were missed in the middle, which on a Saturday JV game isn't the worst thing in the world).

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Go ahead, start. This is bad thinking. Everyone on the field is responsible for knowing penalty enforcement.

I admit, I was being a bit facetious in my previous post - I do try to know, understand, and enforce all the rules. I work JV games as WH, and have never seemed to have a problem when it comes to enforcing the flags thrown, but when I sit down and think about this rule, I still get confused. Maybe it's one of those things you just do as a matter of habit and instinct. Although I do wonder if I've done it wrong in the past, and nobody, including me, caught it.!?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

I admit, I was being a bit facetious in my previous post - I do try to know, understand, and enforce all the rules. I work JV games as WH, and have never seemed to have a problem when it comes to enforcing the flags thrown, but when I sit down and think about this rule, I still get confused. Maybe it's one of those things you just do as a matter of habit and instinct. Although I do wonder if I've done it wrong in the past, and nobody, including me, caught it.!?

Study. Observe. Ask questions. This is how we learn. Any good official will tell you they're always studying and always learning. We all endeavor to work the perfect game. Alas, none of us are perfect.

[ppaltice]

The rationale for bean bagging fumbles that occur behind the line of scrimmage is in the definition of a loose ball play.

A loose ball play is a ...fumble...made from in or behind the neutral zone...

The bean bag indicates where the fumble was made. The rules specify the type of play and subsequent enforcement spot.

I think most would agree that you want to bean bag a fumble made near the line of scrimmage. At that point you are injecting subjectivity into your mechanic. Why not incorporate a consistant mechanic where all fumbles and incomplete backward passes are bean bagged?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

The rationale for bean bagging fumbles that occur behind the line of scrimmage is in the definition of a loose ball play.

A loose ball play is a ...fumble...made from in or behind the neutral zone...

The bean bag indicates where the fumble was made. The rules specify the type of play and subsequent enforcement spot.

I think most would agree that you want to bean bag a fumble made near the line of scrimmage. At that point you are injecting subjectivity into your mechanic. Why not incorporate a consistant mechanic where all fumbles and incomplete backward passes are bean bagged?

It is a consistent mechanic. I consistently do not bag fumbles and grounded backwards passes that are clearly behind the line of scrimmage.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It is a consistent mechanic. I consistently do not bag fumbles and grounded backwards passes that are clearly behind the line of scrimmage.

As I reread our Ohio manual, I noticed this additional rationale for bagging fumbles behind the NZ: it signals everyone that the ball is still live to help prevent inadvertent whistles (also good for grounded backward passes).