PSK enforcement spot

[sloth]

Question came up at a meeting last night. I don't think we came to a final rule reference that gave a convincing answer to the question.

A is punting. B fouls during the kick. All PSK criteria have been met. On the return B looses yardage, so that the end of the run is BEHIND the end of the kick. Do you enforce the foul from the end of the kick or the end of the run?

NCAA/FED?

[kdf5]

PSK is enforced from the end of the kick or the spot of the foul if it's behind the end of the kick. The end of the run is immaterial.

[sloth]

Thanks.

[Warrenkicker]

What kdf5 said is correct. However if the end of the kick is behind the post-enforcement spot of the penalty then you would need to tell K that their best option is to decline the penalty. In other words, if the return lost them 15 yards and the penalty was only 10 yards from the end of the kick then you want to take the result of the play.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: sloth...this is just one more of the reasons that I cringe when I hear people paraphrase the all-but-one principle by simply saying, "Hit 'em where it hurts the most." If they were to do this in your OP play, they would have been enforcing from the dead ball spot (incorrectly). There's no short-cut substitute for ABO.

And as far as rule reference, the important thing to remember is that the PSK spot (spot where the kick ends) is defined as the 'basic spot.' And then just apply ABO--you have a foul by the offense either ahead of or behind the 'basic spot.'

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: sloth...this is just one more of the reasons that I cringe when I hear people paraphrase the all-but-one principle by simply saying, "Hit 'em where it hurts the most." If they were to do this in your OP play, they would have been enforcing from the dead ball spot (incorrectly). There's no short-cut substitute for ABO.

And as far as rule reference, the important thing to remember is that the PSK spot (spot where the kick ends) is defined as the 'basic spot.' And then just apply ABO--you have a foul by the offense either ahead of or behind the 'basic spot.'

Now I'm confused. In this example under your interp. this is a foul behind the basic spot and thus we would enforce from the spot of the foul under ABO.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

And as far as rule reference, the important thing to remember is that the PSK spot (spot where the kick ends) is defined as the 'basic spot.' And then just apply ABO--you have a foul by the offense either ahead of or behind the 'basic spot.'

Actually, it's the reverse: the basic spot is defined as where the kick ends for PSK enforcement.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by parepat

Now I'm confused. In this example under your interp. this is a foul behind the basic spot and thus we would enforce from the spot of the foul under ABO.

Neither the OP nor Bob M's post mentions where the foul was committed by B. If we assume that the punt receiver is behind the rest of his teammates, then it happened beyond the basic spot. Under ABO enforcement would be from the basic spot, or the end of the kick.

Remember, "beyond" and "behind" are to be evaluated from R's (B's) perspective.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Interestingly, for as much significance as the words "behind" and "beyond" have in penalty enforcement, the Fed has never seen fit to define them. The NCAA has. For our purposes, BEYOND the basic spot implies that the foul occurred on the defense’s side of the basic spot; BEHIND means it occurred on the offense’s side of the basic spot. Clearly, on a change of possession, those terms will flip along with the offense-defense designations.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Interestingly, for as much significance as the words "behind" and "beyond" have in penalty enforcement, the Fed has never seen fit to define them. The NCAA has. For our purposes, BEYOND the basic spot implies that the foul occurred on the defense’s side of the basic spot; BEHIND means it occurred on the offense’s side of the basic spot. Clearly, on a change of possession, those terms will flip along with the offense-defense designations.

FED never says what the meaning of 'is' is, either.