The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 08, 2010, 09:00am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Lightbulb Canadian Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
I have one: The line of scrimmage is the 30 of B. Quarterback for A is in the pocket on the 37 when he is grabbed by the earhole of the helmet and his head is twisted. He is subsequently tackled on the 35.

Is there a penalty, if so, for what? Where is the enforcement spot?

We flagged for "face-masking" and marked of 15 from the spot of the foul (ie 37) to make it 1st and 10 on the 22.

This is a high school game.
CANADIAN RULING:

Facemask is a UR foul. UR before YG can be applied from PLS or PBD at non-offending team's option, and by itself, is now unrestricted. Result: Team A 1D/10 @ B-15.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 08, 2010, 09:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
It's considered a loose ball play if the fumble is behind the line of scrimmage -- the basic spot is the previous spot (this is why we don't bag fumbles behind the line of scrimmage).
Here in Ohio, our mechanics czar has directed us to bag all fumbles, including those behind the NZ. The rationale is to instill the habit of bagging fumbles.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 08, 2010, 09:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjp View Post
Go ahead, start. This is bad thinking. Everyone on the field is responsible for knowing penalty enforcement.
I admit, I was being a bit facetious in my previous post - I do try to know, understand, and enforce all the rules. I work JV games as WH, and have never seemed to have a problem when it comes to enforcing the flags thrown, but when I sit down and think about this rule, I still get confused. Maybe it's one of those things you just do as a matter of habit and instinct. Although I do wonder if I've done it wrong in the past, and nobody, including me, caught it.!?
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 08, 2010, 09:37am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Here in Ohio, our mechanics czar has directed us to bag all fumbles, including those behind the NZ. The rationale is to instill the habit of bagging fumbles.
Instead of thinking officials....
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 08, 2010, 11:42am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post

So if you have a pass followed by a fumble followed by a backward pass, it's all one big loose ball play until the last loose ball is caught or recovered. The basic spot for a foul during any of that action would be the previous spot.
One quibble. The forward pass and action before it would be a loose ball play. Once the pass is completed, a running play begins. If there is a subsequent fumble beyond the neutral zone, then that fumble is part of the related run. If that fumble is recovered, we have the start of another running play.

If you have a foul during a loose ball after a fumble beyond the NZ, then the basic spot is the end of the related run.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 12:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Randolph, NJ
Posts: 1,936
Send a message via Yahoo to waltjp
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroKen62 View Post
I admit, I was being a bit facetious in my previous post - I do try to know, understand, and enforce all the rules. I work JV games as WH, and have never seemed to have a problem when it comes to enforcing the flags thrown, but when I sit down and think about this rule, I still get confused. Maybe it's one of those things you just do as a matter of habit and instinct. Although I do wonder if I've done it wrong in the past, and nobody, including me, caught it.!?
Study. Observe. Ask questions. This is how we learn. Any good official will tell you they're always studying and always learning. We all endeavor to work the perfect game. Alas, none of us are perfect.
__________________
I got a fever! And the only prescription.. is more cowbell!
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2010, 12:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 156
The rationale for bean bagging fumbles that occur behind the line of scrimmage is in the definition of a loose ball play.

A loose ball play is a ...fumble...made from in or behind the neutral zone...

The bean bag indicates where the fumble was made. The rules specify the type of play and subsequent enforcement spot.

I think most would agree that you want to bean bag a fumble made near the line of scrimmage. At that point you are injecting subjectivity into your mechanic. Why not incorporate a consistant mechanic where all fumbles and incomplete backward passes are bean bagged?
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2010, 01:56pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppaltice View Post
The rationale for bean bagging fumbles that occur behind the line of scrimmage is in the definition of a loose ball play.

A loose ball play is a ...fumble...made from in or behind the neutral zone...

The bean bag indicates where the fumble was made. The rules specify the type of play and subsequent enforcement spot.

I think most would agree that you want to bean bag a fumble made near the line of scrimmage. At that point you are injecting subjectivity into your mechanic. Why not incorporate a consistant mechanic where all fumbles and incomplete backward passes are bean bagged?
It is a consistent mechanic. I consistently do not bag fumbles and grounded backwards passes that are clearly behind the line of scrimmage.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 11, 2010, 07:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
It is a consistent mechanic. I consistently do not bag fumbles and grounded backwards passes that are clearly behind the line of scrimmage.
As I reread our Ohio manual, I noticed this additional rationale for bagging fumbles behind the NZ: it signals everyone that the ball is still live to help prevent inadvertent whistles (also good for grounded backward passes).
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 11, 2010, 09:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Japan
Posts: 4
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
It's considered a loose ball play if the fumble is behind the line of scrimmage -- the basic spot is the previous spot (this is why we don't bag fumbles behind the line of scrimmage).

It's considered a running play if the fumble is beyond the line of scrimmage -- the basic spot is then the end of the associated run.

I know this is confusing if you're not used to enforcing these. There's a great breakdown of this in the Redding Guide, BTW. Best money you'll ever spend -- I bought 5 of them this year, one for each member of my crew.
Very well stated and correct on all counts, including the invaluable info in the Redding Guide.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PSK enforcement spot sloth Football 9 Fri Sep 19, 2008 07:39am
Enforcement Spot nelson_28602 Football 5 Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:58pm
PSK Spot of enforcement? BoBo Football 4 Mon Sep 15, 2003 01:46pm
Spot of enforcement hllanc Football 5 Sun Oct 20, 2002 03:39pm
spot of enforcement joec Football 1 Thu Jan 11, 2001 01:40pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1