PSK Revisited

[Welpe]

The phrase "scrimmage kick play" is telling. If the Fed's intention was to only have PSK apply during a scrimmage kick (which is well defined in Rule 2) then they would have said so. Their inclusion of the word play has significance. My understanding and how I was taught is that the PSK window starts at the snap.

Redding agrees by the way.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The phrase "scrimmage kick play" is telling. If the Fed's intention was to only have PSK apply during a scrimmage kick (which is well defined in Rule 2) then they would have said so. Their inclusion of the word play has significance. My understanding and how I was taught is that the PSK window starts at the snap.

Redding agrees by the way.

But there is no definition of "scrimmage kick play" in the NFHS rule book like there is in the NCAA rule book (where I believe this wording game from). That's where the confusion comes from. A scrimmage kick doesn't begin until the ball is kicked. I trust Redding but the rule book is not as absolute.

[Mike L]

The concern seems to be if the foul happens before the kick actually happens, PSK will not apply. That's not true. I only have my 2008 books with me here, but if you look at 10.4.3 g in the case book, you'll find this situation addressed.
The possibility for PSK enforcement starts at the snap after which 5 requirements have to be met. The only "timing" requirement is before the kick ends. I believe when the NFHS first came out with the PSK enforcement, there was "timing" requirement of the foul must occur during the kick. But that was changed, again I believe, in the second year.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

But there is no definition of "scrimmage kick play" in the NFHS rule book like there is in the NCAA rule book (where I believe this wording game from). That's where the confusion comes from. A scrimmage kick doesn't begin until the ball is kicked. I trust Redding but the rule book is not as absolute.

That is just dopey and lacks of common sense.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That is just dopey and lacks of common sense.

Seems like I've heard that before. Are you stealing copyrighted quotes?

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That is just dopey and lacks of common sense.

Nice comment dude. How many varsity games have you worked? With an attitude like that I doubt you'll work too many more.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Nice comment dude. How many varsity games have you worked? With an attitude like that I doubt you'll work too many more.

Lay off the Texan. I hear he's got a 5 gallon hat and a 10 gallon head.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Lay off the Texan. I hear he's got a 5 gallon hat and a 10 gallon head.

A legend in his own mind. Maybe squeezed a little tight?

[jaybird]

Definitions!

2-16-2h
Post-scrimmage kick — a foul by R (other than illegal substitution or participation)
when the foul occurs:
1. During scrimmage kick plays, other than a try or successful field goal.
2. During a scrimmage kick play in which the ball crosses the expanded
neutral zone.
3. Beyond the expanded neutral zone.
4. Before the end of a kick.
5. And K will not be next to put the ball in play.

2-38
Scrimmage is the action of the two teams during a down which begins with a snap.

[jaybird]

Welpe :
That is just dopey and lacks of common sense.

bisonlj :
Nice comment dude. How many varsity games have you worked? With an attitude like that I doubt you'll work too many more.

waltjp:
Lay off the Texan. I hear he's got a 5 gallon hat and a 10 gallon head.

bisonlj :
A legend in his own mind. Maybe squeezed a little tight?

Welpe :
It's about quality not quantity...

I can't decide if this sounds like a bunch of old women bickering or an attack by a pack of viscous hyenas!

[Welpe]

Whatever jaydude I think you've been elected head bingo caller.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Nice comment dude. How many varsity games have you worked? With an attitude like that I doubt you'll work too many more.

It's about quality not quantity...

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The phrase "scrimmage kick play" is telling. If the Fed's intention was to only have PSK apply during a scrimmage kick (which is well defined in Rule 2) then they would have said so. Their inclusion of the word play has significance. My understanding and how I was taught is that the PSK window starts at the snap.

Redding agrees by the way.

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but are you suggesting that PSK enforcement would apply regardless of whether there is actually a kick that takes place?

It seems reasonably clear that should the ball not be legally kicked, any penalty enforcement for fouls committed during the down would be established by the basic spot as determined by the action that occurs during the down (NF: 10-4-1)

[Welpe]

No, of course not. PSK enforcement would only apply if all of the elements of PSK enforcement in Rule 2 were met. What I am saying is that the time element of PSK begins (when the PSK window opens) at the snap prior to a scrimmage kick.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by Welpe

PSK enforcement would only apply if all of the elements of PSK enforcement in Rule 2 were met. What I am saying is that the time element of PSK begins (when the PSK window opens) at the snap prior to a scrimmage kick.

That is correct, Texan.