3’ Lane Revisited

[WestMichBlue]

LH batter with running drag bunt down 1B line. 5’4” – F4 covering 1B. High-level catcher has already exhibited strong and accurate arm. When F2 fields ball about 1’ from line, B-R is about 15’ from 1B, completely in fair territory. You are PU, right on the line with same view as catcher. Assume that the calls are the same for most organizations, but let’s use ASA interpretations. What is your call:

A – F2 attempts to finesse throw just missing B-R, but F4 cannot pick up path of ball quick enough to make a catch.

B – F2 tries to put ball over the top of B-R, but only succeeds in sending it over the top of F4.

C – F2 raises her arm to throw, but gives up and does not throw.

D – F2 makes a medium speed throw that hits B-R in the middle of the lower back. (In your mind the ball would not have reached 1B in flight due the low trajectory.)

E – F2 hesitates, steps to the left to find a clear throwing lane and guns the ball to F4, but too late.

WMB

[chuck chopper]

I'll bite. BR out in all cases, However I think "C" is a grey area because it requires us to know what the catcher was thinking. I'm hoping that the catcher starts complaining which would help.

[JEL]

I'd also have to say "C" is iffy.

"A" is a possible no-call, 15' should give enough room to pick up the ball.

"D" catcher might get a warning (key--medium speed, low trajectory)

"B" and "E" are IMO definite INT.


BR out of LH box completley in fair territory though, I would be inclined to INT on all 'cept "D".

[scottk_61]

I have an out in all cases,
I know there has been a lot of discussion of wheher there has to be a throw of not but I FIRMLY believe there does not have to be a throw.

Besides, we get paid for outs.......not safes. hehe

[rhsc]

How would this apply in a 'pickle' sitch, if fielder decides not to throw for the same reason as above?

[mcrowder]

I a pickle situation, the BR is not restricted to a certain area as she is in the running land situation. Interference would require intent in any of the above situations if there was no running lane (or if BR was IN the lane).

I have an out on all but C. If BR is 15 feet away from the bag, there's no reason for F2 not to throw the ball. I don't believe a throw is ALWAYS necessary for interference to occur, but I don't buy it in this situation.

[Dakota]

There's also a lot of discussion on these kinds of situations with "quality throw."

The running lane violation is a special case of interference. Speaking ASA, it specifically requires interference "with the fielder taking the throw at first base".

WMB didn't mention if there was a double base, if so, with the play developing as stated, I would expect that F4 would be taking the orange base, expecting F2 to step into foul territory to make the throw.

Nonetheless, ...

A – F2 attempts to finesse throw just missing B-R, but F4 cannot pick up path of ball quick enough to make a catch.

BR out. Interference with F4 attempting to take the throw.

B – F2 tries to put ball over the top of B-R, but only succeeds in sending it over the top of F4.

Possible BR out, unless the throw is just too horrible. If it is a "quality lob" - - then BR out.

C – F2 raises her arm to throw, but gives up and does not throw.

Nothing. Being out of the running lane may have interfered with F2, but not F4.

D – F2 makes a medium speed throw that hits B-R in the middle of the lower back. (In your mind the ball would not have reached 1B in flight due the low trajectory.)

Doesn't have to reach in flight. Fielders can handle first bouncers (usually). If the throw had a shot at being successful except for the BR, then BR out.

E – F2 hesitates, steps to the left to find a clear throwing lane and guns the ball to F4, but too late.

I'd be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the defense here, but this one is HTBT for me.

[chuck chopper]

If in the mind of the catcher her intended throw was prevented. Who are we to say that BR being 3/4 the way up the line can't possibly have caused interference. Especially if this was a 11-13 age bracket game ?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I a pickle situation, the BR is not restricted to a certain area as she is in the running land situation. Interference would require intent in any of the above situations if there was no running lane (or if BR was IN the lane).

Earth to mcrowder, Earth to mcrowder... how can a BR possibly be in a pickle? What happens the moment she attempts to retreat to home?

[Dakota]

Guys.... remember the running lane violation (ASA 8-2-E) DOES NOT APPLY to interference with F2.

That would be under normal interference rules (8-2-F).

Can you possibly apply 8-2-F to situation "C"?

I don't see it.

[rhsc]

Earth to mcrowder, Earth to mcrowder... how can a BR possibly be in a pickle? What happens the moment she attempts to retreat to home? [/QUOTE]
I think we were all understanding there cant be a pickle between home and first.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
LH batter with running drag bunt down 1B line. 5’4” – F4 covering 1B. High-level catcher has already exhibited strong and accurate arm. When F2 fields ball about 1’ from line, B-R is about 15’ from 1B, completely in fair territory. You are PU, right on the line with same view as catcher. Assume that the calls are the same for most organizations, but let’s use ASA interpretations. What is your call:

A – F2 attempts to finesse throw just missing B-R, but F4 cannot pick up path of ball quick enough to make a catch.

B – F2 tries to put ball over the top of B-R, but only succeeds in sending it over the top of F4.

C – F2 raises her arm to throw, but gives up and does not throw.

D – F2 makes a medium speed throw that hits B-R in the middle of the lower back. (In your mind the ball would not have reached 1B in flight due the low trajectory.)

E – F2 hesitates, steps to the left to find a clear throwing lane and guns the ball to F4, but too late.

WMB

A perfect example of why working the upper level games are easier. A good catcher isn't going to be doing anything, but pick up the ball, make whatever move is necessary to get a good look and gun the BR out.

They are not even going to think about where the BR is running and hope the umpire agrees, they're just going for the out the old fashion way. Would I call INT on any of the scenarios above? Probably, I'll know it when I see it.

[mcrowder]

Dakota - I was responding to our Right-Handed Starting Catcher. (I'm assuming that's what rhsc means!) He asked "How would this apply in a 'pickle' sitch, if fielder decides not to throw for the same reason as above?" I was saying it wouldn't apply, because a BR in a pickle would not have a running lane restriction (obviously ... because BR would not then be between home and 1st base).

Chuck - Dakota said it better than I, but running-lane interference doesn't have anything to do with the catcher's thoughts, opinions, or states-of-mind. Just ask yourself - did the runner, by being out of the lane, interfere with a fielder taking a throw at 1st base. So in C, there is no interference.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
LH batter with running drag bunt down 1B line. 5’4” – F4 covering 1B. High-level catcher has already exhibited strong and accurate arm. When F2 fields ball about 1’ from line, B-R is about 15’ from 1B, completely in fair territory. You are PU, right on the line with same view as catcher. Assume that the calls are the same for most organizations, but let’s use ASA interpretations. What is your call:

A – F2 attempts to finesse throw just missing B-R, but F4 cannot pick up path of ball quick enough to make a catch.

Interference on the BR. Dead ball with BR out!

B – F2 tries to put ball over the top of B-R, but only succeeds in sending it over the top of F4.

Interference on the BR. Dead ball with BR out!

C – F2 raises her arm to throw, but gives up and does not throw.

Hmmmm.....HTBT. From what I am getting here, I am likely to allow play to continue.

D – F2 makes a medium speed throw that hits B-R in the middle of the lower back. (In your mind the ball would not have reached 1B in flight due the low trajectory.)

Another HTBT, but, quite possibly I would have interference on the BR, dead ball and BR out.

E – F2 hesitates, steps to the left to find a clear throwing lane and guns the ball to F4, but too late.

Interference on the BR. Dead ball and BR out.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by rhsc
I think we were all understanding there cant be a pickle between home and first.

Originally posted by mcrowder
Dakota - I was responding to our Right-Handed Starting Catcher. (I'm assuming that's what rhsc means!) He asked "How would this apply in a 'pickle' sitch, if fielder decides not to throw for the same reason as above?" I was saying it wouldn't apply, because a BR in a pickle would not have a running lane restriction (obviously ... because BR would not then be between home and 1st base).

Hmmm.... I'm gonna have to use bigger smilies...

It was a wise-acre remark getting at a small technicality - once the BR reaches 1st, there is no longer a BR, but just an R! BRs only exist between home and 1st, where a pickle is not possible.