NCAA Question

[Odd Duck]

My sport is basketball, so I need some insight. I was attending a D3 game last week and noticed the officials rarely blew their whistle (even noticed it in the NFL but that may just be a sound issue). This game was physical and on several occassions a player down field but facing the line of scrimmage would get nailed by a player with his back to the line of scrimmage well after the action stopped...and it happened to players on both teams. There were never an flags and the game was well officiated.

My concern was that a player who knows the play is dead would relax and get hurt. Why no whistles?

Just curious.

[mbyron]

Did you hear anything else? Maybe it was your ears.

[bigjohn]

Tightwads probably. As long as you don't blow your whistle there are no IWs and you don't have to BUY!

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Did you hear anything else? Maybe it was your ears.

Ok...fair question. Yes, I heard other things and the officials did sometimes blow to kill the play.

I could detect no pattern...they sometime blew when the ball remained in play...a couple of times I did not hear a whistle when the ball went OOB or a team made a first down and always heard a whistle after a flag.

Coaches and players seemed happy...check that...were not visibly complaining (do way to tell if they were happy).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Odd Duck

My sport is basketball, so I need some insight. I was attending a D3 game last week and noticed the officials rarely blew their whistle (even noticed it in the NFL but that may just be a sound issue). This game was physical and on several occassions a player down field but facing the line of scrimmage would get nailed by a player with his back to the line of scrimmage well after the action stopped...and it happened to players on both teams. There were never an flags and the game was well officiated.

My concern was that a player who knows the play is dead would relax and get hurt. Why no whistles?

Just curious.

Players that play the game know when the play is dead. If they do not know, they will learn very soon.

BTW, basketball has the same fundamental as football. The play is already dead when the whistle is blown. The whistle is only to stop those that might be away from the ball. Again you do not need to blow the whistle because players really know when the play is over. And if you blew the whistle anyway, you still could have a late hit or something illegal. And for the record this applies at all levels including high school. My crew rarely blows out whistles on plays in the middle of the field.

Peace

[bisonlj]

If you look in the rule book there are like 47 ways a play ends and a whistle is only one of them! Players know when a play ends and anything else is just an excuse.

[bbcof83]

They obviously live by the mantra "Slow whistle, no whistle" and I learned why last Friday (see "Varsity HL" thread from a few days ago).

Like BigJohn said, no whistles means no possibility of an early whistle (ie the embarrassment/circus that could follow an inadvertent whistle). The players know when the play is over.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Odd Duck

My sport is basketball, so I need some insight. I was attending a D3 game last week and noticed the officials rarely blew their whistle (even noticed it in the NFL but that may just be a sound issue). This game was physical and on several occassions a player down field but facing the line of scrimmage would get nailed by a player with his back to the line of scrimmage well after the action stopped...and it happened to players on both teams. There were never an flags and the game was well officiated.

My concern was that a player who knows the play is dead would relax and get hurt. Why no whistles?

Just curious.

The whistle is generally not necessary but by nor blowing it, guys risk having late hits that cannot be flagged as it may involve players not in position to notice the ball is dead. I have been part of games where a few members of the crew made a wager to see who would have to blow their whistle first (and that person would buy). Seemed pretty juvenile to me and potentially dangerous.

[Texas Aggie]

We (working NCAA rules) go by the mantra, "slow whistles, but NOT no whistles." Generally speaking, at the varsity level, coaches are OK with plays ending without whistles. At the subvarsity level, however, coaches chirp about it some.

I mention what we do at the HS level since in Texas, as I bet Mike will attest to, we've always gotten our direction from local college conferences and officials that work there. (I speak not only from my experience, but from my dad who worked in the days of the Southwest Conference). Anyway, I think its just as wrong to go with no whistles as it is to go with quick ones. And bets that would cause guys not to do their job is a good example of totally unprofessional behavior.

[JasonTX]

A big portion of the plays up the middle where nobody can see the ball you should not hear a whistle. You can bet that if somebody guesses the ball is in the pile, the moment they are blowing there whistle when the pile goes the ground is the same instant the ball is laying on the ground out of view. If you don't see the ball, you should not have a whistle. Obvious incomplete passes, runners going OOB you may not hear many whistles on those. If players don't know the play is over you will likely hear officials using their voice to let them know. We do more talking than we do blowing our whistle. We'll use it when we really need to get their attention but more times than not, the players are all stopped when they see the ball is dead so there won't me much use of the whistle on those plays.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TXMike

The whistle is generally not necessary but by nor blowing it, guys risk having late hits that cannot be flagged as it may involve players not in position to notice the ball is dead. I have been part of games where a few members of the crew made a wager to see who would have to blow their whistle first (and that person would buy). Seemed pretty juvenile to me and potentially dangerous.

Why can't you flag a late hit without a whistle? Do you have a rules reference for that statement?

Peace

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why can't you flag a late hit without a whistle? Do you have a rules reference for that statement?

Peace

I should have been clearer. I am not talking about late hits on the runner. No excuse for that. I am talking about those late blocks thrown far enough away from the action or at such an angle that the blocker could not legitimately know the play was dead. You are a B I believe, as I am I. If so, you know there are many times when you are watching receivers engaged with DB's downfield and you do not have a clue the ball is dead without hearing the whistle. If I do not know it is dead then I suspect there are some players who do not as well.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I should have been clearer. I am not talking about late hits on the runner. No excuse for that. I am talking about those late blocks thrown far enough away from the action or at such an angle that the blocker could not legitimately know the play was dead. You are a B I believe, as I am I. If so, you know there are many times when you are watching receivers engaged with DB's downfield and you do not have a clue the ball is dead without hearing the whistle. If I do not know it is dead then I suspect there are some players who do not as well.

You've still got 2 choices here, even with no whistle:

1. Tell them "It's over!" if the contact is minor.

2. If the contact is severe enough, flag a PF for unnecessary roughness (for example, a cheap shot).

I had #2 a couple weeks ago, with a shot from the side 20 yards away from the play. The coach kept whining that the whistle hadn't blown, until I told him that the flag was for UR, not a late hit.

[TXMike]

The whistle is much louder (and in the places I ref, noise is often an issue) and quicker.

No argument with #2 but I rarely see a DB who is not actively trying to enagage in the action. No way am I flagging a Team A player for trying to keep him from doing so.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I should have been clearer. I am not talking about late hits on the runner. No excuse for that. I am talking about those late blocks thrown far enough away from the action or at such an angle that the blocker could not legitimately know the play was dead. You are a B I believe, as I am I. If so, you know there are many times when you are watching receivers engaged with DB's downfield and you do not have a clue the ball is dead without hearing the whistle. If I do not know it is dead then I suspect there are some players who do not as well.

What you just described does not always stop because there is a whistle. And even if I have a whistle, I may not flag anything if the players are basically engaged with each other and there is not real violent contact. And as long as they stop reasonably, I would not have a foul anyway. This is why I use my voice when I can and yell "It is over...It's over." And I will say that whistle or no whistle.

Peace