Opinions on this?

[JRutledge]

My point was not how far you should pinch or should you pinch at all. I am just saying that it is very possible and likely that these officials either worked no more than this level, or were not very advanced in their career. That means that either way it goes, they probably do not know much about the mechanics or the philosophies. Just looking at the video that is very obvious to me. I used to work a lot of Pop Warner or Bill George ball and I would work with guys that acted like they knew a lot, but would not know basic stuff.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am just saying that it is very possible and likely that these officials either worked no more than this level, or were not very advanced in their career. That means that either way it goes, they probably do not know much about the mechanics or the philosophies.
Peace

Wow, I guess officiating is actually a lot different in some parts of the country. In some parts, the same officials who work local College, HS (at all levels) and Semi-Pro are actually the same officials who work youth leagues.

You might be suprised that some of these officials know a great deal about, have been exposed to all the learning aids about mechanics and philosophies on a consistent basis for decades and take their craft seriously. They actually enjoy mixing with newer officials and passing on some of the practical lessons they've learned over extended careers.

Football is a game of extreme physical interaction and contact played by little children all the way up to large grown men, which has a lot to do with their being 3 separate, major rules codes to deal with some of the obvious differences in the physical makeup of the participants.

Consistency in mechanics is certainly an important consideration, but no more important than recognizing the circumstances of the game you are actually working and applying the intent of those mechanics to the level of the contest at hand. Point of fact, there is very little comparable about football played by 8yr olds, even though they're dressed in pads, and HS football, even at sub-varsity levels. (or your HS program is in deep trouble).
All football fields are the same size, but the players aren't, which can require some adjustment to gain a similar, recommended perspective.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Wow, I guess officiating is actually a lot different in some parts of the country. In some parts, the same officials who work local College, HS (at all levels) and Semi-Pro are actually the same officials who work youth leagues.

I did not say that this applied to everyone. But I highly doubt someone that is working college is available to work much youth ball for the simple reason you cannot be in two places at the same time. That being said, it was rather clear these were not big time high school officials, let alone worked college.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say that this applied to everyone. But I highly doubt someone that is working college is available to work much youth ball for the simple reason you cannot be in two places at the same time. That being said, it was rather clear these were not big time high school officials, let alone worked college.

Peace

I guess it all depends on where you are. The age old suggestion to "do like a Roman" only applied when you might happen to be in Rome. Further East, College games are usually played on Saturday afternoons. Youth Football games are primarily played throughout Sunday afternoons and evenings, although some are played Saturday evenings at 5:00 & 7:00, or 6:00 & 8:00pm and occassionally on weeknights at 6;00pm.

Again, back East, many of the same officials belong to both ECAC and the local HS Assn., that services HS and Youth leagues and services semi-pro leagues and don't have college, HS or semi-pro assignments that conflict with youth leagues every week. Like most areas, it boils down to availability and interest and many enjoy an infinite mix of available choices.

Amazing how often people assume "one size fits all" when in reality that hardly ever applies.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I guess it all depends on where you are. The age old suggestion to "do like a Roman" only applied when you might happen to be in Rome. Further East, College games are usually played on Saturday afternoons. Youth Football games are primarily played throughout Sunday afternoons and evenings, although some are played Saturday evenings at 5:00 & 7:00, or 6:00 & 8:00pm and occassionally on weeknights at 6;00pm.

That sounds great. But you have completely missed the point. It is really not whether officials can or cannot work games at all levels. It is clear by the mechanics, the look of the officials and they way they moved they obviously are not working all levels as was assumed by a previous point. I was stating that that these officials were not automatically high school or college officials as assumed by a previous poster, which is why I made the comments in the first place.

Originally Posted by ajmc

Again, back East, many of the same officials belong to both ECAC and the local HS Assn., that services HS and Youth leagues and services semi-pro leagues and don't have college, HS or semi-pro assignments that conflict with youth leagues every week. Like most areas, it boils down to availability and interest and many enjoy an infinite mix of available choices.

Amazing how often people assume "one size fits all" when in reality that hardly ever applies.

I did not ask you what they did out East. And what someone does in a particular area is also not relevant to my comments. I was making it clear that these officials were likely not working all levels. I work in many basketball camps as a clinician and help train younger/newer officials in basketball. We joke all the time that we can tell what someone's experience is by just watching them run up and down the court just a few times. I think what I saw was a similar reaction that I got. Because college officials would not be doing some of these things whether they were working youth ball or not in my opinion.

Peace

[ajmc]

Relevance is important, as is context, and the context of this discussion seemed pointed towards some observations that "pinching in" from the sidelines was automatically improper mechanics.

The counter suggestion was simply that considering the significant physical and skill differences between 8 year old children playing football, and other more advanced levels of the game, often calls for practical adjustment to standard mechanics to better deal with the actual circumstances of the game at hand. Such adjustments may well be appropriate, rather than automatically considered improper.

There's little value in critiquing any individual official's performance, at the 8 yr old level from a compiled parental highlite video, unless you might be a mentor for that particular official and were discussing it privately and constructively with the official. There is even less value in assessing perfomance based on mechanics, that may be unique at this level, as compared to how they would be required at more advanced levels.

Football at the 8 year old level is a DIFFERENT game.

[Fedex]

Jeez-o guys...breathe for a second.

I understand and know that youth football is a different level than high school. I do know that some mechanics are adjusted to the level. I get it. I also know that some youth officials do not work high school and are just starting out. I'm also going to take back any comments on laziness, since it's probably not the case.

So...let me rephrase my question. When is it appropriate to pinch to an extreme (like at 5:42 and 7:08 of the video)? What good does it do to be that close to the action? Does anybody teach it like that for 8 year old football?

I appreciate the feedback given by you guys...it's priceless knowledge (No sarcasm here).

Scott