Opinions on this?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Fedex

One thing I did notice is the extreme pinching of the wing officials on some of these plays. I know it's youth football, but they were almost getting in the way. There were some sloppy mechanics as well. Just because it's youth football doesn't mean you should take it any less seriously than a high school varsity game. In fact, it's the perfect environment to really work on your mechanics. You just never know who is watching you!

Scott

I hope you do not really think that these officials are necessarily varsity officials. This is the place many people start. Officials who are often working these games are not varsity officials in the first place.

Peace

[Fedex]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I hope you do not really think that these officials are necessarily varsity officials. This is the place many people start. Officials who are often working these games are not varsity officials in the first place.

Peace

I didn't assume that they were varsity officials. I have just never seen an official pinch in that tight before. I guess it caught my attention more than the 8 year old bulldozer. For some reason, it didn't occur to me that they could be first year officials and I apologize for that. If they were vets and just lazy, then that is a different story.

Scott

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Fedex

I didn't assume that they were varsity officials. I have just never seen an official pinch in that tight before. I guess it caught my attention more than the 8 year old bulldozer. For some reason, it didn't occur to me that they could be first year officials and I apologize for that. If they were vets and just lazy, then that is a different story.

Scott

In many areas the same officials who work at the varsity level also work youth league games, and thinking that positioning, especially on the wings, should be the same for 8 year olds as it is for varsity games is ridiculous. We need to adjust and adapt to the game we're working, rather than be rigid in complying with a recommended mechanic that is not practical for the level we're dealing with.

The wider positioning recommended for varsity level contests is a direct response and reaction to the skill level of the players and the variety of formations and strategies being employed. Wing officials camping out on their respective sidelines, at most youth level games, contribute precious little to the game thats usually being played a lot closer to where the ball is being snapped. When play, at these levels, does turn outside it's much easier to maintain an appropriate separation because of the skill level of the participants.

There's simply no need to be as wide at younger level youth league contests, because the risk of being out flanked is so much lower and the need for helping control the players reactions is so much greater.

The caution is always not to get too close, but the play should be within sight.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Fedex

I didn't assume that they were varsity officials. I have just never seen an official pinch in that tight before. I guess it caught my attention more than the 8 year old bulldozer. For some reason, it didn't occur to me that they could be first year officials and I apologize for that. If they were vets and just lazy, then that is a different story.

Scott

Different assoc's do things differently. Some have varsity officials required to work the little guys, some don't. Some assoc's have the officials pinch in that far pre-snap, some have you react to what happens after the snap before pinching, some want you to wait until after the play is dead before pinching.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Fedex

I didn't assume that they were varsity officials. I have just never seen an official pinch in that tight before. I guess it caught my attention more than the 8 year old bulldozer. For some reason, it didn't occur to me that they could be first year officials and I apologize for that. If they were vets and just lazy, then that is a different story.

Scott

I guess I am a little confused what pinching has to do with being lazy? It might not be the perfect mechanic, but I do not understand the lazy part of your post.

Peace

[HLin NC]

but here after one has worked Wed-Thurs-Fri, we can do a triple-header youth series on Saturday. Your butt can be dragging by game 3 and you'll pinch, shuffle, lope, whatever, just to stay out there to finish.

Not saying its right but just sayin.....

And there probably are more inexperienced officials in these clips.

[Fedex]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess I am a little confused what pinching has to do with being lazy? It might not be the perfect mechanic, but I do not understand the lazy part of your post.

Peace

It's more of if they are just too lazy (or tired) to walk back toward the sidelines and come back in to spot the ball after the play. I guess I still fail to understand the benefit of pinching in that close at the start of the play. I work youth football as well as varsity and can see the play just fine without pinching. I just think that there is a greater benefit of moving in forward from the sideline during the play than to back pedal quickly or *gasp* turn around. However, I will concede the point that some associations teach it that way and that maybe these officials are doing things correctly as taught to them. I also concede that these may be rookie officials just learning their way.

Scott

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Fedex

It's more of if they are just too lazy (or tired) to walk back toward the sidelines and come back in to spot the ball after the play. I guess I still fail to understand the benefit of pinching in that close at the start of the play.
Scott

For at least 40 years, the recommended NFHS positioning for wing officials was, "a minimum of 9 yards outside the widest receiver" and faily recently changed to the current, "straddle the LOS on the sideline". Of course either of these recommended mechanics were intended for VARSITY level HS contests.

The notion that the practicality, or necessity, of these recommendations would apply equally to 8 yr. olds is perposterous. The underlying objective is to simply avoid getting TOO close to the formation to be able to respond to it. If there is a concern about getting outflanked in an 8 year old game, perhaps the wing is not the right position for you.

There are a number of distinct advantages of "pinching in" closer to the formations at the youth levels, among which are; putting a cushion between yourself and overly inquisitive sidelines who believe part of our job is to conduct a running clinic and constanly debate the perfection of every formation and play. It's easier to ignore someone from a distance.

Younger players (not a surprise to parents of younger males) don't always listen or focus as well as their older brothers. There often seems to be a bit more "preventive officiating"needed at lower age games, and helpful suggestions are often heard better by players, and subject to less sideline eavesdropping, from just a few steps further in from the sideline. Converging in on the dead ball situations, and assuring the actions stops when it should can be more of a safety factor with younger players who may not understand, or react to whistles, or commands, as promptly as their older counterparts.

The younger the players, usually, the lower the skill and comprehension levels which can produce more confusion and players being in the wrong place at the wrong time, oblivious to their surroundings. Often, not always, the closer adult supoervision is to the actual action, the more effectiver the supervision.

In reality, there is precious little practical value to positioning wing officials at the same distance from the play as is appropriate for Varsity contests where the recommended positioning has been establised in consideration of the skill level, of Varsity level players, and the complexity and sophistication of Varsity level strategies.

Of course when confronted with any exceptional players or teams, we simply adjust and respond to the game we are working. "Pinching in", at youth level games, is far less an indicator of either inexperience or laziness as it is simply to appropriate adjustment to the job site you're assigned to

[Fedex]

Ok...check out 5:42 and 7:08 of this video. What's the benefit of being this close??? I can understand some pinching at this level, the majority in this video was ok, but these two are the ones that stood out to me.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Fedex

Ok...check out 5:42 and 7:08 of this video. What's the benefit of being this close??? I can understand some pinching at this level, the majority in this video was ok, but these two are the ones that stood out to me.

Why would anyone want to watch 7:08 minutes of some parents home movies about his 8 yr old's football game? What would you hope to learn from seeing some out of context footage?

[Bob M.]

There are two issues related to being too close, i.e. pinching in too far: (1) yes, you might get in the way and find yourself more focused on getting out of the way than on watching the play in progress, and (2) probably more importantly, closing down your peripheral vision so much that you don't get a good look at the play. We have a fundamental premise that you don't call something unless you see the whole play. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the less peripheral vision you're able to use, the less likely you are to see action from beginning to end.

While I agree that there might be no reason for a wing official to necessarily be off the field in a little kids' game, I would heartily suggest that the wing stay as wide as he can. It will help in that game, and it will help a newer official get used to seeing the game from that perspective so that we he does make the jump to HS and possibly college ball, he'll know what it's like to watch a game with that amount of peripheral vision at his disposal.