Translation issues

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

So-- if R get blocked into the ball, by K, before it goes 10 yards (in NFHS) what is the correct call?

You might look at NF:6.1.5, that advises; "Any K player may recover the ball before it goes beyond R's free kick line if it is touched first by any receiver. Such touching in the neutral zone by R is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball or if K muffs the ball into contact with R."

[kfo9494]

Thanks, Did not have my books but that got me to thinking. And as usual, I think too much.

[dvasques]

Rule 8-5-2 states:

After a safety is scored, the ball belongs to the defending team at it's own 20-yard line, and that team shall put the ball in play on or between the inbound lines by a free kick that may be a punt, drop kick or place kick (Exception: Extra period and try rules).


ok... the safety os scored by the defending team. So shouldn't the offense be kicking the safety kick?

Also, a place kick? Just like a kickoff? Sure, there's nothing allowing a tee to be used on the text of the rule, but there is nothing forbidding it either.
And back in Rule 2 it says that safety kick is a free kick, and it says that a place kick on a free kick may be done with the use of a tee.

Is that right? You can use a tee for safety kicks?

[dvasques]

Is that right that there is no tie in the NCAA? Not even during the regular season? There is always going to be extra periodS when the first 4 ends in a tie until someone wins?

[dvasques]

is it not safety for offensive fouls that occur in their own endzone? Like offensive holding inside the offensive endzone???

Or am I missing something about penalty enforcement here?

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by dvasques

Rule 8-5-2 states:

After a safety is scored, the ball belongs to the defending team at it's own 20-yard line....

What they mean in this Rule when they say "defending team" is the team defending the endzone where the safety was scored. They don't mean offense or defense.

Also, a place kick? Just like a kickoff? Sure, there's nothing allowing a tee to be used on the text of the rule, but there is nothing forbidding it either.
And back in Rule 2 it says that safety kick is a free kick, and it says that a place kick on a free kick may be done with the use of a tee.

Is that right? You can use a tee for safety kicks?

Yes, the kick after a safety can be a free kick just like a kickoff with a tee. Which is what most teams will do. However they do have the option to punt or drop kick. Some teams have a great punter and a poor place kicker so will choose to punt instead. I've never seen a drop kick after a safety in 25 years, which means it will probably happen on my next game

Is that right that there is no tie in the NCAA? Not even during the regular season? There is always going to be extra periodS when the first 4 ends in a tie until someone wins?

Correct. However here in Europe, some Leagues do allow a tie and only use the tiebreaker in the playoffs. I worked the British Bowl weekend in 2008 and my game went to four overtimes!!

is it not safety for offensive fouls that occur in their own endzone? Like offensive holding inside the offensive endzone???

Yes it is a safety for these offensive fouls (Offensive F/Mask, Illegal Hands, Holding, Illegal Block, and P/Foul) .
Rules References:-
10-2-2-c-1(run ends beyond nz),
10-2-2-c-2(run ends behind nz),
10-2-2-d-4 (passes),
10-2-2-e-4 (scrimmage kicks)

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by dvasques

Is that right that there is no tie in the NCAA? Not even during the regular season? There is always going to be extra periodS when the first 4 ends in a tie until someone wins?

and after the 3rd overtime, both teams must go for two after a touchdown.

[dvasques]

Rule 10-2-2-d states that the basic spot of enforcement for pass plays is the previous spot EXCEPT
bla bla bla

2. Roughing-the-passer enforcement on a completed forward pass from the end of the last run when that run ends beyond the neutral zone and there is no change of team possession during the down.

My guess is that it should read like this

2. Roughing-the-passer enforcement on a completed forward pass IS from the end of the last run when that run ends beyond the neutral zone and there is no change of team possession during the down.

Did I get this right?

[dvasques]

this may be just the late hours so forgive me if I sound stupid but

how is Rule 10-2-2-d Exception 4 an exception?

I mean, the text of it says

Enforcement penalties for facemask, (...) occuring behind the neutral zone by the offensive team from the previous spot.

Didn't d just say that the enforcement on pass plays is from the previous spot???

I think I should stop with the work for today and get some rest while waiting for some help...

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by dvasques

this may be just the late hours so forgive me if I sound stupid but

how is Rule 10-2-2-d Exception 4 an exception?

I mean, the text of it says

Enforcement penalties for facemask, (...) occuring behind the neutral zone by the offensive team from the previous spot.

Didn't d just say that the enforcement on pass plays is from the previous spot???

I think I should stop with the work for today and get some rest while waiting for some help...

If 10-2-2-d-4 was not there, then you would not award a safety for those listed fouls when they occured in Team A's EndZone. Instead you would enforce from the Previous spot.

The reason for exception 4 is the embedded exception to the exception, i.e. the part about awarding the safety, but I agree that when you first read it, it looks like it is repeating itself

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by dvasques

Rule 10-2-2-d states that the basic spot of enforcement for pass plays is the previous spot EXCEPT
bla bla bla

2. Roughing-the-passer enforcement on a completed forward pass from the end of the last run when that run ends beyond the neutral zone and there is no change of team possession during the down.

My guess is that it should read like this

2. Roughing-the-passer enforcement on a completed forward pass IS from the end of the last run when that run ends beyond the neutral zone and there is no change of team possession during the down.

Did I get this right?

Yes.

[dvasques]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

If 10-2-2-d-4 was not there, then you would not award a safety for those listed fouls when they occured in Team A's EndZone. Instead you would enforce from the Previous spot.

The reason for exception 4 is the embedded exception to the exception, i.e. the part about awarding the safety, but I agree that when you first read it, it looks like it is repeating itself

Ok... got it... although it's written all over the rules that whenever a foul is commited by the offense, behind Team A's goaline it is a safety.

But I got it. Thanks

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by dvasques

.....although it's written all over the rules that whenever a foul is commited by the offense, behind Team A's goaline it is a safety.

Indeed, that same piece is repeated all over the Rule Book. It certainly is time for the book to have a major rewrite so that things like that only need to be written once. You must be tired of translating the same bit of English over and over again into Portuguese!

[dvasques]

7-1-3-XII
A30, lined up legally as a back, starts in motion legally. He then turns
so that he still is legally in motion but is facing his line of scrimmage
using a “side-step” motion. At the snap, A30 is bent slightly forward
at the waist and is either continuing his “side-step” motion or is
“marking time” in place. RULING: Legal.


What is "marking time"????

[With_Two_Flakes]

I would say that "Marking time" is an expression more used in America than England.

The English term would be "Running on the spot".

His legs are still going up and down, but he isn't actually moving anywhere.

Like when soldiers are marching on the parade ground and then they stop going forward, but their legs are still making the marching action.