forward progress when caught in the air

[PackersFTW]

if the receiver catches the ball in the air at the other team's 9 yard line, but lands both feet down on the 10 yard line. is forward progress given at the 9, or is it at the 10? i would think at the 10, because when you catch a ball in the air, it's not a complete catch yet, you have to establish yourself on the ground, right? i saw a call in the eagles game where this happpened. it wasn't important at all, but he caught it about a yard and a half past the 1st down line, but landed right on the 1st down line, and they spotted it where he caught it in the air, not where he landed after the catch.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by PackersFTW

if the receiver catches the ball in the air at the other team's 9 yard line, but lands both feet down on the 10 yard line. is forward progress given at the 9, or is it at the 10? i would think at the 10, because when you catch a ball in the air, it's not a complete catch yet, you have to establish yourself on the ground, right? i saw a call in the eagles game where this happpened. it wasn't important at all, but he caught it about a yard and a half past the 1st down line, but landed right on the 1st down line, and they spotted it where he caught it in the air, not where he landed after the catch.

Was the receiver's backward motion due to his own action or provided by an opponent?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by PackersFTW

if the receiver catches the ball in the air at the other team's 9 yard line, but lands both feet down on the 10 yard line. is forward progress given at the 9, or is it at the 10? i would think at the 10, because when you catch a ball in the air, it's not a complete catch yet, you have to establish yourself on the ground, right? i saw a call in the eagles game where this happpened. it wasn't important at all, but he caught it about a yard and a half past the 1st down line, but landed right on the 1st down line, and they spotted it where he caught it in the air, not where he landed after the catch.

CANADIAN RULING:

Forward progress is always where the ball is, no where the feet are. The fundmental concept if forward progress is that you earn (either direction) where you get to on your own accord. If the ball was at the B9 and A1 caught the ball while airborne, and he lands without being touched, with the ball at the B10, then forward progress is the B10. If you're contacted while airborne, you get the spot where the ball was when you were contacted.

I can't imagine that the NFL is different.

[kdf5]

In NF fwd progress is the farthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if contacted by a defender. The definition of possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after he....catches it. Therefore he has to catch it, meaning come down to the ground inbounds.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by PackersFTW

if the receiver catches the ball in the air at the other team's 9 yard line, but lands both feet down on the 10 yard line. is forward progress given at the 9, or is it at the 10? i would think at the 10, because when you catch a ball in the air, it's not a complete catch yet, you have to establish yourself on the ground, right? i saw a call in the eagles game where this happpened. it wasn't important at all, but he caught it about a yard and a half past the 1st down line, but landed right on the 1st down line, and they spotted it where he caught it in the air, not where he landed after the catch.

There are two separate principles involved in your question. Forward Progress and completing a catch, that don't always happen at the same time, or at the same spot. A receiver can secure possession of a ball while in the air, and forward progress will be considered the farthest point the ball has progressed, towards the opponent's goal line while possessed, however the "catch" will not be completed until one, or both feet (depending on rules code) touch down inbounds while possession of the ball is maintained.

Consider the goal line. If an airborne player possesses a ball that breaks the plane of the goal line, but is subsequently knocked back so that his first contact with the ground is back within the field of play, although the "catch" is not complete until he touches down, once he does and maintains possession, the forward progress would result in a TD.

[umpirebob71]

Originally Posted by ajmc

There are two separate principles involved in your question. Forward Progress and completing a catch, that don't always happen at the same time, or at the same spot. A receiver can secure possession of a ball while in the air, and forward progress will be considered the farthest point the ball has progressed, towards the opponent's goal line while possessed, however the "catch" will not be completed until one, or both feet (depending on rules code) touch down inbounds while possession of the ball is maintained.

Consider the goal line. If an airborne player possesses a ball that breaks the plane of the goal line, but is subsequently knocked back so that his first contact with the ground is back within the field of play, although the "catch" is not complete until he touches down, once he does and maintains possession, the forward progress would result in a TD.

And only if you're the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by ajmc

...A receiver can secure possession of a ball while in the air, and forward progress will be considered the farthest point the ball has progressed, towards the opponent's goal line while possessed...

I'm guessing you are talking about being contacted by a defender. If he is in the EZ and jumps towards the field of play securing the ball in the EZ but landing at the one, he won't score unless he was driven out to the one by the defender. If he lands at the one on his own, he is not given FP (touchdown) but rather will have the ball at his one.

[ajmc]

Yes I was.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by kdf5

I'm guessing you are talking about being contacted by a defender. If he is in the EZ and jumps towards the field of play securing the ball in the EZ but landing at the one, he won't score unless he was driven out to the one by the defender.

No, it's a touchdown. Once he touches the ground in bounds, his having possessed the ball in the end zone is recognized in all codes AFAIK.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

No, it's a touchdown. Once he touches the ground in bounds, his having possessed the ball in the end zone is recognized in all codes AFAIK.

His forward progress is only given if he's contacted by a defender. Forward progress is the "end of advancement of the ball in a runner’s possession". He doesn't have possession until he makes a catch and he doesn't make a catch until he returns to the ground inbounds.

How would you rule this one: A1 is just inside the EZ and while running back towards the goal line leaps into the air. He grasps the ball while over the EZ but lands outside the EZ at the one. He then tries to make a backward pass to A2 but instead B2 catches the backward pass and runs the ball back for a TD.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by kdf5

His forward progress is only given if he's contacted by a defender. Forward progress is the "end of advancement of the ball in a runner’s possession". He doesn't have possession until he makes a catch and he doesn't make a catch until he returns to the ground inbounds.

This is not a case of forward progress, but of possession of a live ball beyond the opposing goal line. The catch is ruled once the foot hits the ground, but possession is retroactive to when the ball was actually grasped by the airborne player.

How would you rule this one: A1 is just inside the EZ and while running back towards the goal line leaps into the air. He grasps the ball while over the EZ but lands outside the EZ at the one. He then tries to make a backward pass to A2 but instead B2 catches the backward pass and runs the ball back for a TD.

The ball was dead once he landed, and the touchdown given.

However, if he hadn't touched the ground before getting rid of the ball, it would be a touchdown for the other team because the original pass was completed by B2.

Robert

[kdf5]

Robert, my argument is based on the following rules:

2-34-1...A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he has caught or recovered it.

2-4-1...A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds or being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball.

8-2...Possession of a live ball in the opponent’s end zone is always a touchdown.

The only rule I can't find is the one that says "possession is retroactive to when the ball was actually grasped by the airborne player". Please give me the rule number for that statement.

[Mike L]

Is the rule different in the NFL? Because in NFHS an airborne receiver's forward progress is the furthest point of advance after possession is established if contacted by a defender. So an airborne receiver who catches a ball over the end zone but lands at the one without defender contact has not scored a touchdown.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: kdf5...you're correct for Federation. Unless contacted and driven back into the field of play, an airborne receiver securing control of a ball in flight above the opponent's end zone, must complete his catch (i.e. touch the ground inbounds) with the ball in the opponent's end zone in order for a TD to be ruled. Otherwise, where he initially controlled the pass is not significant. But if he is contacted above the opponent's end zone and driven back so that his first contact is with the ground in the field of play, forward progress is ruled and a TD is awarded.

NCAA rules are different. In NCAA, if the airborne receiver over the opponent's end zone is contacted by an opponent and driven to the ground in the field of play, he is awarded a TD. If, however, he lands on his feet, the ball remains alive and no TD is awarded on the basis of forward progress.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Robert, my argument is based on the following rules:

2-34-1...A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he has caught or recovered it.

2-4-1...A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds or being contacted by an opponent in such a way that he is prevented from returning to the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball.

8-2...Possession of a live ball in the opponent’s end zone is always a touchdown.

The only rule I can't find is the one that says "possession is retroactive to when the ball was actually grasped by the airborne player". Please give me the rule number for that statement.

I disagree with a point RG makes. If the receiver goes up to make a catch while in the end zone, but his own momentum causes him to land in the field of play, he isn't given forward progress for a TD. According to Rule 2-15-2: "When an airborne player makes a catch, forward progress is the furthest point of advancement after he possesses the ball if contacted by a defender.

The case book supports this as well (Case 2.15.1): It is first and 10 for A at B's 12-yard line. A1 sprints near the end line and then buttonhooks. He jumps and possesses a forward pass while in the air above the end zone. (a) A1's momentum carries him back into the field of play and he lands and is downed at the 1 yard line; or (b) while in the air in the end zone, he is contacted by B1 and he then lands and is downed on B's 2-yard line. Ruling: In (a), it is A's ball first and goal at B's 1-yard line. In (b), it is a touchdown if the covering official judges the contact by B1 is the cause of A1 coming down at the 2-yard line, instead of in the end zone.

In discussing this case, we've also talked about the situation where the defender contacts the receiver and pushes him back into the field of play but the receiver is able to get away without being tackled. Because he is no longer engaged with the defender, forward progress does not apply and he must get back into the end zone to score.