NFHS Ball Mechanics

[GoodScout]

With the rise of no-huddle offenses, this has become a big issue in the past few years. Our association's crews always try and work with each team to allow them to run balls in when they feel they need to. (We of course don't let them just run a ball in on fourth downs for obvious reasons). Likewise, finding good, quick ballboys who pay attention is always a challenge. Ironically, it's usually the coaches who push us in the pregame to hurry the RFP for their no-huddle who have the slowest ballboys.

One pet peeve this U has for R's and other crew members: Don't relay out the ball so quickly on a change of possession. I like to place the ball on the spot at the end of play, and then replace it with the incoming offense's ball before lifting and relaying out the old one. Why? Because if I have a ballboy who decided to go get a Coke or hit on a female trainer on the sideline rather than do his job, I still have a football to work with and we can play with the "wrong team's ball." When you relay out the only football, we stand their looking like morons screaming "Ball! Ball!" at the top of our lungs.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

With the rise of no-huddle offenses, this has become a big issue in the past few years. Our association's crews always try and work with each team to allow them to run balls in when they feel they need to. (We of course don't let them just run a ball in on fourth downs for obvious reasons). Likewise, finding good, quick ballboys who pay attention is always a challenge. Ironically, it's usually the coaches who push us in the pregame to hurry the RFP for their no-huddle who have the slowest ballboys.

One pet peeve this U has for R's and other crew members: Don't relay out the ball so quickly on a change of possession. I like to place the ball on the spot at the end of play, and then replace it with the incoming offense's ball before lifting and relaying out the old one. Why? Because if I have a ballboy who decided to go get a Coke or hit on a female trainer on the sideline rather than do his job, I still have a football to work with and we can play with the "wrong team's ball." When you relay out the only football, we stand their looking like morons screaming "Ball! Ball!" at the top of our lungs.

Basically agree, although I don't like having ball boys on the field - EVER. The wing official will take the new ball from the ball boy. If the wing is down field the U or R will go over and get it.

I totally agree with not throwing a ball off after a COP until you have the replacement. It's not our job to go chasing the ball boy around the sideline looking for a new ball. IF the ball isn't ready we're playing with the one we have.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Basically agree, although I don't like having ball boys on the field - EVER. The wing official will take the new ball from the ball boy. If the wing is down field the U or R will go over and get it.

I totally agree with not throwing a ball off after a COP until you have the replacement. It's not our job to go chasing the ball boy around the sideline looking for a new ball. IF the ball isn't ready we're playing with the one we have.

Amazing the differences -- I'm the WH on my crew and I want the ball boys (on a new series) to run all the way out and HAND the ball to the umpire. On a long incompletion either the wing or BJ will get a new ball from the ball boy while someone else chases the other ball.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Amazing the differences -- I'm the WH on my crew and I want the ball boys (on a new series) to run all the way out and HAND the ball to the umpire.

Same way it is done here.

On a long incompletion either the wing or BJ will get a new ball from the ball boy while someone else chases the other ball.

For some reason, teams as whole do not do that here. Most teams have one ball they will use for the game and that is it.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Amazing the differences -- I'm the WH on my crew and I want the ball boys (on a new series) to run all the way out and HAND the ball to the umpire.

See, and I'm totally cool with there being certain matters of individual style and preference with regards to white hats (and with crews). If your referee wants it done a certain way, do it that way. When you're the crew chief, you can do it your way.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Amazing the differences -- I'm the WH on my crew and I want the ball boys (on a new series) to run all the way out and HAND the ball to the umpire. On a long incompletion either the wing or BJ will get a new ball from the ball boy while someone else chases the other ball.

My reasoning is simple - players are big and strong and armored. Ball boys are not. I also feel we're quicker when we relay the ball in from the sideline instead of having the ball boy run on and off the field.

This method works well for us.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Amazing the differences -- I'm the WH on my crew and I want the ball boys (on a new series) to run all the way out and HAND the ball to the umpire. On a long incompletion either the wing or BJ will get a new ball from the ball boy while someone else chases the other ball.

When I was a line judge, I told the ball boys they could come all the way out to wherever I was to deliver or retrieve a ball. If I had to pinch in for a spot and needed a new ball, I didn't want him to have to heave the ball 20 yards to get it to me. I would occasionally get an over-zealous ball boy who would like to run it out to the umpire and I was usually fine with that if he was efficient.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Amazing the differences -- I'm the WH on my crew and I want the ball boys (on a new series) to run all the way out and HAND the ball to the umpire. On a long incompletion either the wing or BJ will get a new ball from the ball boy while someone else chases the other ball.

I don't get the handing part, is it because your wing guys can't throw, or your Umpire can't catch?

What does your LJ do during a CoP?

[ajmc]

Excuse me RefumpWelsch, I understood the example accurately, which is why I mentioned I was suggesting something associated with a previous, related, issue about exchanging footballs.

Is it possible I could have made it clearer that I would not recommend the restrictions imposed by the referee in the sample question? Was there some part of, "unnecessary and a really poor way to elicit cooperation before the start of a game" that led you to a conclusion I was being supportive?

The secret is simply; don't don't be complicit, even unintentionally, in doing something that might allow either team to gain any unearned advantage.

Originally Posted by ajmc

The secret is simply; don't don't be complicit, even unintentionally, in doing something that might allow either team to gain any unearned advantage.

And the crew in the original posting wasn't complicit? I'm confused as to your point now, because first you were defending the crew and deriding the coach, and now you're condeming the crew, or at least that what it seems to me. I'm not being critical of your comments, but my day job as a college instructor is kicking in right now mentally, and I'm just trying to make sure I understand you correctly.

[ajmc]

I'e don't know what you teach, or what difference that makes but having no control over your reading comprehension, I'll try harder to express myself clearer.

I was simply trying to reiterate a related point, which comes up periodically and is germane to the general issue of ball replacement. Perhaps because of the processes involved in the more visible professional and collegiate games, many coaches are under the misunderstanding that they have direct input into the conditions or circumstances that dictate when, and even how, game balls are replaced.

That is NOT the case. Game officials have the exclusive and absolute authority to decide if and when game balls should be exchanged, other than at the start of a series (NF: 1.3.2) and as otherwise defined by the rules (NF: 1.3.3).

Your references to, "we can screw the team trailing and in the hurry up offense out of their time" and that somehow leads to your conclusion, "that we don't need to hustle" seem to exist more in your mind than in any of the suggestions made up to this point.

As I have tried to suggest, as officials we should not alter our process, or the interval of,of declaring the ball RFP to satisfy and special requirements giving an advantage to either team. I was not condemning the crew, although I believe the incident as described, exceeded what I would consider reasonable protocol for handling an ancillary matter such as ball exchange.

I wouldn't deride any coach's motivation, unless and until I was working a game in which a specific coach tried to exceed his authority, and even then my initial response would be to simply explain the proper answer to whatever question was being raised.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by refbuz

I don't get the handing part, is it because your wing guys can't throw, or your Umpire can't catch?

What does your LJ do during a CoP?

Irrelevant, really. Half the time the ball comes in from the chain side and the L has something to do. So both ball boys do the same thing.

There's no reason for the wings to come in. They start on the sidelines. Ball boy runs ball to umpire. Umpire spots ball while ball boy leaves field. Wings are in position. Ready for play. Not having to handle the ball frees them to count players, line up, etc.

Throwing the ball around unnecessarily is also something we try to avoid.

[OverAndBack]

Well, that's sage advice, it seems to me.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Well, that's sage advice, it seems to me.

If I had seven, I would probably handle it a bit differently (using a deep wing and leaving the ball boy off the field). But I don't and probably never will at the high school level.

My crew spends a lot of time talking about things like this when we meet before, during, and after the season. One of the advantages, I think, of having a set crew.

[ajmc]

Excuse me, RefUmpWelsch, I was not responding to the behavior mentioned in the original example. The reaction to those restrictions and any arrogance or annoyance at the request seems fairly obvious. I don't know about "perogative", but choosing to insist on an unusual, one sided, restriction regarding the exchange of footballs seems unnecessary and a really poor way to elicit cooperation before the start of a game.

The point I was trying to make, is that neither team is entitled to, or should receive, ANY special treatment related to the pace of the RFP for ANY reason, much less when it's suggested when a change of pace is intended to give one team an advantage.

There are all sorts of "issues" to deal with relating to ballboys and/or exchanges of game balls. Unfortunately, the primary factors are usually where you are and what resources are made available to you. Some venues provide excellent assistance, some offer horrible help, and you have to figure out the best way to deal with what you've got. Thankfully, we have great leeway to do what we think will be best.