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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 14, 2004, 01:23pm
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Anyone seen any information on the mechanics changes for this year? I'm especially interested in the change in free kick assignments for for U, L and R and what kind of visual count the back judge will use for the 25 second count.
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Old Mon Jun 14, 2004, 01:52pm
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I believe the backjudge just uses a visual chop count like basketball officials use.
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Old Mon Jun 14, 2004, 06:32pm
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Input

Well, I can offer this from our group...

We started using the mechanics change on kickoffs last year and it went pretty well. The only problems we had were with ego's that didn't want to change. Those that did reported having good success and not much of a problem.

Our HL's liked it because they didn't have to chase the chains down. The chains came to them and it saved a little bit of time, thus getting them ready for the next play a little earlier.

As far as the BJ counting time. I do not do this. Our group simply has the B raise a hand when there are 5 seconds remaining in the 25-second count. Counting time (similiar to a basketball official), kind of paints you into a corner for calling DOG. I find it better to just put a hand in the air. That way, I can always fudge a little more if I need to. If I have a visible count going, I might have to slow down my count. Hope that makes sense. It is not perfect, but seems to work for us.
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Old Mon Jun 14, 2004, 07:20pm
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Re: Input

Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Ernie
Well, I can offer this from our group...

....
Our HL's liked it because they didn't have to chase the chains down. The chains came to them and it saved a little bit of time, thus getting them ready for the next play a little earlier.

....
Just where is the H being positioned now on free kicks and are we talking 4 man or 5 man or both?
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Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 11:42am
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REPLY: Tom, the way I understand it for 5-man is:
* B now administers K's free kick line and takes care of handing the ball to the kicker
* H is on the side opposite the press box side down around R's 20 (usually good position for him to set the chains after the free kick down ends)
* U jumps over to the press box side opposite the H
* R and L stay like they have been

Don't know why they didn't just move the L downfield also opposite the H to mimic CCA and NFL techniques, but the Fed moves at its own pace.
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Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 12:21pm
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Re: Input

Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Ernie
Well, I can offer this from our group...

As far as the BJ counting time. I do not do this. Our group simply has the B raise a hand when there are 5 seconds remaining in the 25-second count. Counting time (similiar to a basketball official), kind of paints you into a corner for calling DOG. I find it better to just put a hand in the air. That way, I can always fudge a little more if I need to. If I have a visible count going, I might have to slow down my count. Hope that makes sense. It is not perfect, but seems to work for us.
I agree with Uncle Ernie. Assuming this mechanic helps the QB know when the 25 second count is about up, you also have to assume that the QB is looking right at the BJ the entire time in order to pick up a count (similar to a BB official). The reality is - the QB is looking all over the place, and if the QB does manage to look at the BJ and sees him "counting," then the next question is, "is he on 1, or 3, etc.??? Better just to have the BJ stick his arm up. I would also make sure that the clock operator is aware of this signal so there is no misinterpretation on starting or stopping the game clock. I would also have the BJ demonstrate the mechanic to be used to both coaches and their QBs in the pregame discussions.
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Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 12:28pm
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OK, thanks Bob. My area will not get any books until August.

While the exact year is a bit fuzzy, maybe '92, NF swapped the U and H around on the kickoffs. Remember that?
Hardly do any NF 5-man, but for the 4-man, they moved H to K's free kick line and U moved to the 20 or 25 on the same side.

I really forget what the rationale was for this change. But I do remember busting my Umps chops saying it was because he couldn't keep up with the long run backs even after starting at the K-40.
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Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 01:57pm
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REPLY: Yeah Tom...I do remember when they switched, but I can't recall the rationale either.

As for the BJ's visual signal on the 25-second count, the NCAA has the SJ primarily responsible for the play clock. If the visible play clock becomes inoperable, or if there are no visible play clocks, the SJ is supposed to raise his hand straight in the air (no chop) when there are 10 seconds remaining on the play clock. I did read somewhere that the CCA was possibly thinking of moving that responsibility away from the SJ, but I can't recall the specifics or where I actually read that. Tom, Uncle Ernie...do either of you recall hearing that?
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Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 06:48pm
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In 1993 the U was moved from the kickers to the receivers frontline. And then back to downfield in 1995.
I knew there was some reson I've kept all those old rulebooks.
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Old Tue Jun 15, 2004, 07:24pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY:I did read somewhere that the CCA was possibly thinking of moving that responsibility away from the SJ, but I can't recall the specifics or where I actually read that. Tom, Uncle Ernie...do either of you recall hearing that?
I don't remember seeing that Bob, but then again, I am pretty much a short timer.
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Old Wed Jun 16, 2004, 06:43am
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NCAA; From what I understand, the B will take over the play clock in 7-man games. Something to do with the positioning of these clocks relative to the positioning of the S.
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Old Sat Jun 19, 2004, 10:04am
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Cool

Hey-- come on now !!
When they moved us Umpires on Kick-offs
down to the current position-- I said it added at
least five years to my officiating career !!
Sounds like a good reason to me !!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 25, 2004, 08:48pm
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The NFHS website has the changes.
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Old Sun Jun 27, 2004, 06:45pm
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Smile Umpires down the field on kick-offs...

Yeah, except now I think I tore my rotator cuff from winding the clock on kick-off returns!!!
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Old Mon Jun 28, 2004, 01:30pm
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Re: Re: Input

Quote:
Originally posted by kentref
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Ernie
Well, I can offer this from our group...

As far as the BJ counting time. I do not do this. Our group simply has the B raise a hand when there are 5 seconds remaining in the 25-second count. Counting time (similiar to a basketball official), kind of paints you into a corner for calling DOG. I find it better to just put a hand in the air. That way, I can always fudge a little more if I need to. If I have a visible count going, I might have to slow down my count. Hope that makes sense. It is not perfect, but seems to work for us.
I agree with Uncle Ernie. Assuming this mechanic helps the QB know when the 25 second count is about up, you also have to assume that the QB is looking right at the BJ the entire time in order to pick up a count (similar to a BB official). The reality is - the QB is looking all over the place, and if the QB does manage to look at the BJ and sees him "counting," then the next question is, "is he on 1, or 3, etc.??? Better just to have the BJ stick his arm up. I would also make sure that the clock operator is aware of this signal so there is no misinterpretation on starting or stopping the game clock. I would also have the BJ demonstrate the mechanic to be used to both coaches and their QBs in the pregame discussions.
Guys, in Wyoming we have used the count mechanic for quite some time. You will find that not only do the kids and coaches use it, they come to rely upon it. To the point that if they are used to a 5 man crew and get a 4 man crew, that is one of their main concerns. It works well. Word that our group in WY got from the NFHS meeting is that they absolutely don't want the hand in the air mechanic....just FWIW
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