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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 11, 2003, 07:57pm
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I recently watched an NFHS game in WI. The officials used that silly 2 referee one linesman system. How can this possibly work? All the system does is force both referees to act like they are in the 2 man system despite the presence of the linesman. The LM can't cover both lines so the referee has to cover his line before moving with the play, which inevitably puts him behind the play. I think this system is absolutely terrible!

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2003, 08:12pm
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I agree with you. It is not any better than the two-man system. Some people actually believe that it is a better system just because there is another official on the ice.??????? Not So. Also if the two officials don't call a complimenting game, then it still does'nt matter how many are out there.

Well they have 2 referees in the Pros!!!!!

Not even worth discussing. TOTALLY two different games and abilities.

USA HOCKEY does not even recognize the system, yet there are still games that are played here in Pitt, using it ?

I still believe that the 1R 2LL system is the best. Although, if you are going to use two referees ,then use two lines also.
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Old Thu Feb 13, 2003, 05:52pm
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RRL

I've worked 2-Ref, 1 Ref/1 Line, 1 Ref/2 Line, 2 Ref/1 Line and even did an exhibition game for fun that was 2 Ref/2 Line. My opinion is that USA Hockey's recognized systems are the best for the level of hockey that we cover. Two referees and a linesman is ridiculous because it simply confuses roles, since a referee is expected to call lines at some times but not others.

By the way, the four man system used in the NHL is interesting. After working it on a full sized rink (85' x 200') during an exhibition game, I was suprised to find that the ice was not nearly as crowded as I expected. The mechanics were simple too - the linesmen work just like they would in a RLL system, and the referees work just like they would in a 2-man RR system, just without line responsibilities. On the full size rink, you can stay out of the way of the linesmen with actually less difficulty than you could in the 3 man RLL system when you are trying to cut up ice to get ahead of the breakaway pass while ducking the linesman's wash-out signal for no-ice.

RR & RLL are really the only two that make sense for amateur ice hockey.

P.S. One ref and one line is horrible as well - it just means that the ref skates his butt off to make the calls, and still has to keep track of the lines.
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Old Thu Feb 13, 2003, 08:34pm
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"Two referees and a linesman is ridiculous because it simply confuses roles, since a referee is expected to call lines at some times but not others"

I agree. We actually have people here that belive it is good training for a new linesmen. I say it is good training for total confusion. However, I believe the system got its begining in NCAA Hockey. It was their way of appeasing the media for having more referees on the ice to call more penalities.In the long run it meant that that referees could stay around a few more years because the skating is not as rigorous as the RLL system. Therefore it became more acceptable. At 53 I can understand and accept that.

But the RRL system stills sucks.
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Old Fri Feb 14, 2003, 10:42am
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What about the NCAA system where the L can call penalties? That seems like a good compromise that doesn't cause lots of positioning problems. I don't mind that system one bit. Also, realistically, for a lot of amatuer hockey, it is hard enough to get 3 guys for a game let alone 4!
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Old Sat Feb 15, 2003, 06:18pm
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I agree with the point that 3 are hard enough, let alone 4 at the amatuer level. I am not familar with the system where the linesmen call penalties, so I really cant comment on it. I still believe that the RRL system is not that good.

My point was the RRL system is just as effective as the RR system if the two officials compliment each other and take control og the game when they have to. At the amateur level they usually throw one linsemen that is not that experienced and then say that it is training. I call it confusing in the RRL system. Then there are those that think just because there are 3 officials out there that the game will more in control!!!!!! Well if there is going to be 3 officials then I say the best system is the RLL. The lines can concentrate on what they have to do, one L can help the other and you get one decision maker out there wether good or bad, the teams can adjust to the one easier then two. And as everyone knows , you can have ten officials on the ice. if the teams wants to get out of control, your gonna have a long night, no matter who you are or how good you are.
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Old Thu Feb 27, 2003, 12:06am
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wrong!

first off. the two referee and one linesman system actually works pretty well if its done properly and all three officials are on the same wave length.

the back referee positions himself somewhere between the neutral zone face-off dot and the centre ice face-off dot, just like the back referee in the nhl's four-man. the linesman then covers the blueline and makes any line calls.

the referee only makes the inital off-side call when plays enters a zone and then the linesman comes up and takes the line, the back referee can then take his time getting up the ice and watch for any possible infractions. many places work it the opposite of this and have the linesman make the first call, but it works horrible that way and that's where confusion is and the referees get caught up. this way there's no constant handoff of lines or crossing over each's other view.

as for it being used in pittsburgh, it can't be used in usa hockey games and you should report any league's use of this system to matt leaf @ usa hockey. it voids the insurance for everyone on the ice.

in division one ncaa hockey, we currently use a one referee and two assistant referee system. the ar's are basically linesmen, but can actually call (NOTE I DIDN'T SAY REPORT) infractions that occur behind the play or go unobserved by the referee, they also have other duties as well that normal linesmen don't have.
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Old Thu Feb 27, 2003, 07:16pm
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"first off. the two referee and one linesman system actually works pretty well if its done properly and all three officials are on the same wave length."

And that is exactly my point, unless the officials are on the same wave length, thRR system is just as effective. Plus that fact that many are not useing the system as you suggested later in your post. That is also why it is not working.

I dont really think that it invalidates insurance coverage because USA Hockey requirments are to have certified Officials on the ice for all games. If that was the case a game could not be played if only one official shows.

Putting insurance coverage aside, I realize the RRL is not an approved USAH system however, we do NOT have a strong presense of representation for USA HOCKEY in this area and many officials and assignors do whatever they feel like, let alone what the organizations request. In other words there is a major lack of coordination of the supervisors and training for this area. What can I say?

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Old Thu Feb 27, 2003, 07:19pm
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what way are people working the system? yes, it voids the usa hockey insurance. i spoke to my district referee in chief today about this and that's what he said.

YOU CANNOT USE THIS SYSTEM IN USA HOCKEY GAMES.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 27, 2003, 07:33pm
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They have worked it both ways you mentioned. I have repeateally stated the same thing about it being used in the area. But as I stated it is tough to get the supervisors together, let alone together to agree on something. And No one hears from the guy who is in charge except when playoffs are around or someone important come to the area.

Its been very frustrating to me because I was very active as an instructor on the training staff, in the area I previously lived. Now I have to call around each year and ask if I can help out. Sometimes I never get a return call at all????

Im very happy to just do my games. Because its much more fun than trying to talk to walls.
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