NFHS Survey up

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Mike L

1) Horse collar...fine by me, it is a safety thing.

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

I haven't seen any either (This is my first year though), but I sure do hear the coaches and fans yelling for a call though.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by aschramm

but I sure do hear the coaches and fans yelling for a call though.

Welcome to officiating. It is funny sometimes when you hear fans yelling for something that is not part of the high school rules.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

Welcome to officiating. It is funny sometimes when you hear fans yelling for something that is not part of the high school rules.

Yes, and I do expect to hear it from fans, since most are unaware that high school athletics have their own rule set. However when I have the youth coaches yelling about it, that's another problem.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

Welcome to officiating. It is funny sometimes when you hear fans yelling for something that is not part of the high school rules.

It can get funnier. I saw one horse collar tackle at a youth game this year. I hear a woman behind me yell, "Watch the clipping ref! He pulled him down from behind! That's just as bad as a face mask!"

[aschramm]

I think my favorite was in baseball this year, I believe it was U12 or U10, late in the game. Defensive team wants to intentionally walk a batter, plate umpire calls time/dead ball and awards batter first base (NFHS rules). Offensive coaches and parents are up in arms because they believe the pitcher has to throw four balls (OBR), and because they think there's a chance of the pitcher throwing over the catchers head so that other runners can advance. They were very critical of the plate umpire, but I saw that umpire a few weeks later and said he received a call from the coach after the game saying that he made the correct call.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by aschramm

I haven't seen any either (This is my first year though), but I sure do hear the coaches and fans yelling for a call though.

The concern I've heard (and largely agree with) is the true horse collar tackle is very rare at the high school level. Most HS players are not strong enough to reach out with one hand of a player at full speed, grab his shoulder pads/jersey, and immediately pull him down backwards. Coaches, players, and fans will assume any tackle involving the shoulder pads should be a penalty and there will be a lot of inconsistent application by officials. It is a safety issue but a true horse collar is so rare in HS that I don't know if we need a rule specifically about it. It wouldn't surprise me if we see it in the next couple years though.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

I find it strange that this is a concern all of a sudden. It's not as if the mechanics of the game have recently changed, nor the construction of the harness style shoulder pads AFAIK (or shirt collars). Previous efforts to curb knee injuries have resulted in rule changes only after long study & deliberation. How could this danger have been lurking unrecognized for so long? And why, of all the ways a player can wind up folded under like that, must this particular technique, and only against a ballcarrier, be singled out as a cause?

Robert

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

Give it time. We've only been playing football for 150+ years in this country.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

I am not either. I have only seen the horse collar injuries at the pro level. And they ere primarily from one person on the Dallas Cowboys, and those were from Roy Williams.

I have yet to see a college or high school injury from this tactic.

Peace

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not either. I have only seen the horse collar injuries at the pro level. And they ere primarily from one person on the Dallas Cowboys, and those were from Roy Williams.

I have yet to see a college or high school injury from this tactic.

Peace

J,

By the same token, when was the last time you've seen someone severely injured from a facemask penalty? In all of my years of playing and watching, I've never seen anyone hurt badly from it... yet it is a safety rule. I've actually seen more injuries from horse collars.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

Yeah, both the NFL and NCAA instituted the rule for safety reasons. But what do they know?
I had 3 possible horse collar type plays this year. One resulted in a minor knee injury, one resulted in a concussion, one resulted in not much of anything.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Yeah, both the NFL and NCAA instituted the rule for safety reasons. But what do they know?
I had 3 possible horse collar type plays this year. One resulted in a minor knee injury, one resulted in a concussion, one resulted in not much of anything.

NFL and NCAA vs. NFHS is comparing apples and oranges. Pro and college players are bigger, faster, stronger. There are numerous differences between the codes of each game.

I constantly hear people yelling for a horse collar penalty on any tackle from behind. The vast majority of these would not qualify as a horse collar to begin with, and that small portion that do very rarely result in any injury.

Football is a contact sport. Injuries happen and I'm all in favor of reducing the risk. I just don't see the disproportional risk involved with horse collar tackles in high school ball.

I favor having a ban on horse collaring in football period. It's a tackle that shouldn't be taught. I used to do horse collaring when I played back in the 80's, and my coaches would yell at me for doing it, because they felt it was dirty playing. The butt-chewing I endured would even heighten when I caused injury to the player I horse collared.

Many of you talk about the lack of injuries resulting from horse collaring at the HS level. Yes, the injuries are far and few, but the ones that do happen can be nasty. I know one kid who had his knee completely pulled out of joint from a horse collar. Another one suffered a broken leg. Matter of fact, one horse collar tackle I made in high school left a gash on the quarterback's arm, because when I pulled on him, and then started to turn him towards the sideline, the momentum pulled him in the air and he slid right into the team bench. The grass was a bit wet, and boy, I look back on that and regret it to this day.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I favor having a ban on horse collaring in football period. It's a tackle that shouldn't be taught.

Does anybody really teach this tackle, or is it more of an instinctive, oh-my-god-i-can-only-get-one-hand-on-the-runner-and-when-i-do-i'm-pulling kind of a deal? if guys were in better position or could tackle normally, maybe they wouldn't be in bad positions where their last resort is to reach out and pull.