NFHS Survey up

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

Welcome to officiating. It is funny sometimes when you hear fans yelling for something that is not part of the high school rules.

Yes, and I do expect to hear it from fans, since most are unaware that high school athletics have their own rule set. However when I have the youth coaches yelling about it, that's another problem.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

Welcome to officiating. It is funny sometimes when you hear fans yelling for something that is not part of the high school rules.

It can get funnier. I saw one horse collar tackle at a youth game this year. I hear a woman behind me yell, "Watch the clipping ref! He pulled him down from behind! That's just as bad as a face mask!"

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

My senior year our WR caught a long pass in game 3 and was horse collared from behind. he suffered a spiral fracture and needed titanium rods in his leg. needless to say he was done for the year.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not either. I have only seen the horse collar injuries at the pro level. And they ere primarily from one person on the Dallas Cowboys, and those were from Roy Williams.

I have yet to see a college or high school injury from this tactic.

Peace

J,

By the same token, when was the last time you've seen someone severely injured from a facemask penalty? In all of my years of playing and watching, I've never seen anyone hurt badly from it... yet it is a safety rule. I've actually seen more injuries from horse collars.

[aschramm]

I think my favorite was in baseball this year, I believe it was U12 or U10, late in the game. Defensive team wants to intentionally walk a batter, plate umpire calls time/dead ball and awards batter first base (NFHS rules). Offensive coaches and parents are up in arms because they believe the pitcher has to throw four balls (OBR), and because they think there's a chance of the pitcher throwing over the catchers head so that other runners can advance. They were very critical of the plate umpire, but I saw that umpire a few weeks later and said he received a call from the coach after the game saying that he made the correct call.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by bossman72

My senior year our WR caught a long pass in game 3 and was horse collared from behind. he suffered a spiral fracture and needed titanium rods in his leg. needless to say he was done for the year.

You should have been running the A-11. It completely prevents injuries.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

You should have been running the A-11. It completely prevents injuries.

On another board, he has since amended his stance on this issue. He now says that it makes things "slightly" safer.

[KurtBryan]

This is great information about the Horse Collar tackle and other items, appreciate it.

And yes, we are pleased the A-11 has made the game even safer for the kids.

Appreciate the heads up about these other issues very much too.

KB

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Yeah, both the NFL and NCAA instituted the rule for safety reasons. But what do they know?
I had 3 possible horse collar type plays this year. One resulted in a minor knee injury, one resulted in a concussion, one resulted in not much of anything.

NFL and NCAA vs. NFHS is comparing apples and oranges. Pro and college players are bigger, faster, stronger. There are numerous differences between the codes of each game.

I constantly hear people yelling for a horse collar penalty on any tackle from behind. The vast majority of these would not qualify as a horse collar to begin with, and that small portion that do very rarely result in any injury.

Football is a contact sport. Injuries happen and I'm all in favor of reducing the risk. I just don't see the disproportional risk involved with horse collar tackles in high school ball.

I favor having a ban on horse collaring in football period. It's a tackle that shouldn't be taught. I used to do horse collaring when I played back in the 80's, and my coaches would yell at me for doing it, because they felt it was dirty playing. The butt-chewing I endured would even heighten when I caused injury to the player I horse collared.

Many of you talk about the lack of injuries resulting from horse collaring at the HS level. Yes, the injuries are far and few, but the ones that do happen can be nasty. I know one kid who had his knee completely pulled out of joint from a horse collar. Another one suffered a broken leg. Matter of fact, one horse collar tackle I made in high school left a gash on the quarterback's arm, because when I pulled on him, and then started to turn him towards the sideline, the momentum pulled him in the air and he slid right into the team bench. The grass was a bit wet, and boy, I look back on that and regret it to this day.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Where do you get the info from re the trend towards eliminating the try. I do not read it that way in Nelson's book. The try has been in since the game's inception (I suspect owing to the game's spinning off from rugby). I see where there were many discussions and changes related to where try would be attempted from and point values but nothing related to the elimination of the try.

The try originally started as a continuation from a punt-out (and potentially a series of punt-ons), so abolishing that (which was done earlier in Rugby Union than in American or Canadian football) reduced the try to a much simpler and less time consuming affair. I call that a step toward elimination.

Then, the fact that the try became a kind of digression from the game, rather than a link in a scoring effort, reduced its importance, so I call that another step toward elimination.

The reduction in scoring value of the try vs. the touchdown that caused it to be awarded, I call a step toward elimination. From the time an unconverted try first got a scoring value, until the 2 point conversion was introduced, that ratio had declined from 2:1 to 1:6 -- a factor of 12 -- so is it much of a stretch to project that trend down to 0?

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I had 3 possible horse collar type plays this year. One resulted in...a concussion

Please explain.

[Mike L]

Um, what's to explain? A player was brought down via a horse collar type action. He remained down, looked pretty loopy to me, the trainers determined he had a concussion and I believe off he went to the hospital.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I favor having a ban on horse collaring in football period. It's a tackle that shouldn't be taught.

Does anybody really teach this tackle, or is it more of an instinctive, oh-my-god-i-can-only-get-one-hand-on-the-runner-and-when-i-do-i'm-pulling kind of a deal? if guys were in better position or could tackle normally, maybe they wouldn't be in bad positions where their last resort is to reach out and pull.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Um, what's to explain? A player was brought down via a horse collar type action. He remained down, looked pretty loopy to me, the trainers determined he had a concussion and I believe off he went to the hospital.

What's to explain is whether the concussion was just coincidental, or whether there's something about collaring someone that makes a concussion more likely than by other forms of tackling. Seems to me it'd be less likely to cause a head hit than other types of tackling.

Robert