NFHS Survey up

[JRutledge]

I guess if you call an invention that cannot be used the following year great.

Peace

[TXMike]

This will the 8th installment of the series by the NY Times Magazine

Interesting disclaimer from last year's list:


"They're not the best, not all the most promising .... They're not even the most popular. The ideas are not necessarily good ideas."

And an example of some of the great ideas from last year's list:

Lap dancers get better tips when they are ovulating.

You are in great company there KB!

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by mikesears

I think the question was about allowing A to pick up a blocked PAT kick and run it in for 2 points. I don't think they are wanting to go the college route on this (yet)

Oregon and another state had this rule an experiment. Happened a few times.

I do think A should be able to pick up a blocked PAT and score. Mechanically tough with 5 (and less.)

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Mike L

1) Horse collar...fine by me, it is a safety thing.

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

[aschramm]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

I haven't seen any either (This is my first year though), but I sure do hear the coaches and fans yelling for a call though.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Let's hope not. That has to be the most convoluted of all differences between the codes. Consider than the concept of a PAT is that the team that has scored a TD (only a TD) is rewarded with the opportunity to "try" and add another point, by meeting certain conditions.

The defense has not earned any reward opportunity, other than the fact they have the opportunity to prevent the scoring team from adding these bonus point(s). Why should the team that has allowed their opponent to score a TD be afforded any opportunity to score themselves?

I agree for the same reasons, and beyond that I'd like to see the try abolished. 2-way scoring is going in the exact wrong direction.

Eliminating the try would considerably shorten the rule book, simplify scoring, shorten games, and finally get rid of something that was on an asymptotic trend toward elimination until it was reversed 50 years ago. The try is a way to decide games via a fluke. No other major game (unless it's a relative -- rugby) provides an opp'ty for a minor score following a major score.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Just playing devil's advocate since I work under NCAA rules only but...

The extra point is danged near automatic now. So it is almost a gimmee. Why not make the offense be somewhat concerned that an error on their part could result in a score by B?

Thast's an argument for abolishing the try, not glorifying it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

The NCAA rule was changed in 1988 as there was thought that the extra point was too much in favor of the offense and the change was needed to restore some balance. They also hoped to reduce the number of PAT kicks. They achieved the 1st goal but did not do much on the 2d.

The solution was so simple (abolishing the try outright) they couldn't see it.

Darn, I should've multi-quoted. But at least now the thread won't be so dominated by A-11 discussion.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

I find it strange that this is a concern all of a sudden. It's not as if the mechanics of the game have recently changed, nor the construction of the harness style shoulder pads AFAIK (or shirt collars). Previous efforts to curb knee injuries have resulted in rule changes only after long study & deliberation. How could this danger have been lurking unrecognized for so long? And why, of all the ways a player can wind up folded under like that, must this particular technique, and only against a ballcarrier, be singled out as a cause?

Robert

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

Give it time. We've only been playing football for 150+ years in this country.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

I am not either. I have only seen the horse collar injuries at the pro level. And they ere primarily from one person on the Dallas Cowboys, and those were from Roy Williams.

I have yet to see a college or high school injury from this tactic.

Peace

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Eliminating the try would considerably shorten the rule book, simplify scoring, shorten games, and finally get rid of something that was on an asymptotic trend toward elimination until it was reversed 50 years ago. The try is a way to decide games via a fluke. No other major game (unless it's a relative -- rugby) provides an opp'ty for a minor score following a major score.

Robert

Where do you get the info from re the trend towards eliminating the try. I do not read it that way in Nelson's book. The try has been in since the game's inception (I suspect owing to the game's spinning off from rugby). I see where there were many discussions and changes related to where try would be attempted from and point values but nothing related to the elimination of the try.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by aschramm

but I sure do hear the coaches and fans yelling for a call though.

Welcome to officiating. It is funny sometimes when you hear fans yelling for something that is not part of the high school rules.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by aschramm

I haven't seen any either (This is my first year though), but I sure do hear the coaches and fans yelling for a call though.

The concern I've heard (and largely agree with) is the true horse collar tackle is very rare at the high school level. Most HS players are not strong enough to reach out with one hand of a player at full speed, grab his shoulder pads/jersey, and immediately pull him down backwards. Coaches, players, and fans will assume any tackle involving the shoulder pads should be a penalty and there will be a lot of inconsistent application by officials. It is a safety issue but a true horse collar is so rare in HS that I don't know if we need a rule specifically about it. It wouldn't surprise me if we see it in the next couple years though.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Where are all the horse collar injuries? I'm not seeing them.

Yeah, both the NFL and NCAA instituted the rule for safety reasons. But what do they know?
I had 3 possible horse collar type plays this year. One resulted in a minor knee injury, one resulted in a concussion, one resulted in not much of anything.