Questions on 4 Situations

[Scooby]

I was working 7th grade football and there were 4 situations that caused many complaints. I believe that I got then all correct. Fed rules.

Sit 1. 1st and 10 on the 25. A1 pitches the ball to A2 who rolls out and passes the ball and then is hit by B1, the pass was incomplete. I called roughing the passer on B1. ½ the distance and auto 1st down.
Coach's complaint is that Roughing the passer cannot be called because A2 is a running back.
Rule 2-32-11...A passer is a player who throws a legal forward pass. He continues
to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play.

Sit 2. 1 and 10 on the 15. A2 is tackled by the face mask on the 14. I rule 15 yard face Mask penalty and 1/2 distance to the 7, 1st and 2 on the 7.
Coach wanted automatic 1st down.
Only Roughing passer, kicker and holder, snapper and defensive pass interference include automatic 1st down.

Sit. 3. 4th and 10 on the 40. K has only 6 men on the line of scrimmage and the clock is stopped. K1 kicks the ball to R1 who is tackled inbounds. R accepts the penalty for illegal formation. I start the clock on the ready for play.
Coach wants it to start on the snap because the play prior to the penalty the clock was stopped.
Rule 3-4-2 b3

Sit. 4. 1st and 10 on the 30 with 45 seconds left in the second quarter clock is running. B1 encroaches. 1st and 5 on the 35, clock starts on the ready for play. In my judgment B was not trying to consume time.
Coach wants the clock to start on the snap because "you can’t penalize us on their penalty."
Rule 3-4-2 b3

Did I get these right?

[BktBallRef]

Yes, you did.

[bisonlj]

Actually, situation 3 should have the clock start on the snap. If either team is awarded a new series after a legal kick, the clock starts on the snap. The others look right to me.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Sit 1. ... A1 pitches the ball to A2...

In Sit 1, were there runners on base or not? Oh wait... if you mean A1 threw a backwards pass to A2, then I agree with the rest of that situation, too.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Actually, situation 3 should have the clock start on the snap. If either team is awarded a new series after a legal kick, the clock starts on the snap. The others look right to me.

This is one of those rules I always have to remind myself about. But in this case, with the accepted penalty, I don't think there was a new series awarded.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Sit 1. 1st and 10 on the 25. A1 pitches the ball to A2 who rolls out and passes the ball and then is hit by B1, the pass was incomplete. I called roughing the passer on B1. ½ the distance and auto 1st down.
Coach's complaint is that Roughing the passer cannot be called because A2 is a running back.

Coach is an idiot.

[LeRoy]

I hope that you charged the coach with a time out if he wanted to talk to you that much.

[Jmuvol]

Scooby...welcome to the world of lower level football. I had a play like your first situation last year with a back that took the backwards pass, threw it legally down field and then was roughed. Coach said we couldn't have roughing because he wasn't a quarterback. That's why it's called roughing the "passer", not roughing the quarterback. Coaches at this level have little or no clue. They mix high school, college, and NFL together to get what they think will work in any given situation. You made the right calls. Keep it up.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Actually, situation 3 should have the clock start on the snap. If either team is awarded a new series after a legal kick, the clock starts on the snap. The others look right to me.

Maybe it's different where you live but here, in sub-varsity games (this was a 7th grade game) we follow the old rules. We do not start on the snap unless the previous kicking play ended OOB. My guess is that's the OP's situation as well.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Maybe it's different where you live but here, in sub-varsity games (this was a 7th grade game) we follow the old rules. We do not start on the snap unless the previous kicking play ended OOB. My guess is that's the OP's situation as well.

If this was a 7th grade game, I don't even stop the clock. Most middle school games around here start the clock on the RFP in almost every situation (it's been a few years since I've worked games at that level).

To answer the other question, I believe this is considered a new series and the clock would start on the snap. The general rule of thumb I've been told is that if the ball is legally kicked, the next clock will start on the snap regardless of the outcome of the game. If I'm wrong I've been given the wrong guidance.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

To answer the other question, I believe this is considered a new series and the clock would start on the snap. The general rule of thumb I've been told is that if the ball is legally kicked, the next clock will start on the snap regardless of the outcome of the game. If I'm wrong I've been given the wrong guidance.

There wasn't a new series awarded. If R accepts the penalty for K's illegal formation foul, the down would be replayed so the clock should start on the RTP in this sit.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by LeRoy

I hope that you charged the coach with a time out if he wanted to talk to you that much.

No time out, he got an unsportsman like conduct and that ended the the conference. And he did got a second one in the late in the game and finished the game in the parking lot.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There wasn't a new series awarded. If R accepts the penalty for K's illegal formation foul, the down would be replayed so the clock should start on the RTP in this sit.

Correct. I misread it (twice). I was thinking K got a first down due to the penalty.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Correct. I misread it (twice). I was thinking K got a first down due to the penalty.

Ah in that case you would be correct...as I learned just last week.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Ah in that case you would be correct...as I learned just last week.

Great!! We can now justify our time on these forums because we are learning AND teaching and all becoming better officials!!