Questions on 4 Situations

[ajmc]

The only reminder I might suggest, is that in situation 1, where a runner develops into being a passer, there is an additional, albeit limited, measure of leeway given to the defense according to how that transition occurs. NF: 9.4.5 (Roughing the passer) includes the language, "after it is clear the ball has been thrown" which establishes the point at which the defensive restrictions begin.

As for starting the clock on the ready after a defensive encroachment; although you have the authority to decide to hold the clock until the snap, if you decided the foul was deliberately intended to illegally consure time, your judgment to start the clock on the ready seems entirely appropriate as you mention the clock was running after the previous play.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The only reminder I might suggest, is that in situation 1, where a runner develops into being a passer, there is an additional, albeit limited, measure of leeway given to the defense according to how that transition occurs. NF: 9.4.5 (Roughing the passer) includes the language, "after it is clear the ball has been thrown" which establishes the point at which the defensive restrictions begin.

Correct. Had a situation like that recently where the QB rolled out and it appeared he could run and then he pulled up and threw and got hammered. WH said it was close, but the transition you speak of was the determining factor in him NOT calling RTP.

Of course, if they go for the head or something, you could still have unnecessary roughness, correct?

[Scooby]

Oh, by the way, I had Bill Welke, Major League Umpire on the down box for the game.

[Welpe]

Was this before or after the tag by Varitek at 3rd base? I would've loved to pick his brain about that call.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There wasn't a new series awarded. If R accepts the penalty for K's illegal formation foul, the down would be replayed so the clock should start on the RTP in this sit.

I am still of the opinion that the clock should start on the snap. If there was no penalty the clock would not start. The clock was stopped at the snap as well. The reason we stopped the clock was not solely because of the penalty.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Scooby

I was working 7th grade football and there were 4 situations that caused many complaints. I believe that I got then all correct. Fed rules.

Sit 1. 1st and 10 on the 25. A1 pitches the ball to A2 who rolls out and passes the ball and then is hit by B1, the pass was incomplete. I called roughing the passer on B1. ½ the distance and auto 1st down.
Coach's complaint is that Roughing the passer cannot be called because A2 is a running back.
Rule 2-32-11...A passer is a player who throws a legal forward pass. He continues
to be a passer until the legal forward pass ends or until he moves to participate in the play.

Sit 2. 1 and 10 on the 15. A2 is tackled by the face mask on the 14. I rule 15 yard face Mask penalty and 1/2 distance to the 7, 1st and 2 on the 7.
Coach wanted automatic 1st down.
Only Roughing passer, kicker and holder, snapper and defensive pass interference include automatic 1st down.

Sit. 3. 4th and 10 on the 40. K has only 6 men on the line of scrimmage and the clock is stopped. K1 kicks the ball to R1 who is tackled inbounds. R accepts the penalty for illegal formation. I start the clock on the ready for play.
Coach wants it to start on the snap because the play prior to the penalty the clock was stopped.
Rule 3-4-2 b3

Sit. 4. 1st and 10 on the 30 with 45 seconds left in the second quarter clock is running. B1 encroaches. 1st and 5 on the 35, clock starts on the ready for play. In my judgment B was not trying to consume time.
Coach wants the clock to start on the snap because "you can’t penalize us on their penalty."
Rule 3-4-2 b3

Did I get these right?

CANADIAN RULINGS:

1. It is called RTP for a reason. A RB can certainly pass the ball after receiving a backwards pass.
2. Facemask is a UR foul, which carries an AFD. Otherwise, same penalty app: ½ the distance to the goal.
3. If the play with the illegal formation is after the 3-minute warning, clock on the snap, otherwise clock on the ready.
4. Clock on the snap as we're under the 3-minute warning.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by parepat

I am still of the opinion that the clock should start on the snap. If there was no penalty the clock would not start.

You are correct if there were no penalty, the clock would start on the snap for two reasons (1) a team was awarded a new series following a legal kick and (2) team B was awarded a new series. Neither of these things happened though because there was an accepted penalty.

In that case, you look at what caused the down to end. In this case, the ball carrier was tackled inbounds so the clock wil start on the RFP.

The clock was stopped at the snap as well.

That would only matter if you had a dead ball foul prior to the ball becoming live, otherwise the clock status prior to the ball becoming live is irrelevant when a foul occurs.

I will try to provide some rule references tonight (books are at home).