Questions on 4 Situations

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

To answer the other question, I believe this is considered a new series and the clock would start on the snap. The general rule of thumb I've been told is that if the ball is legally kicked, the next clock will start on the snap regardless of the outcome of the game. If I'm wrong I've been given the wrong guidance.

There wasn't a new series awarded. If R accepts the penalty for K's illegal formation foul, the down would be replayed so the clock should start on the RTP in this sit.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There wasn't a new series awarded. If R accepts the penalty for K's illegal formation foul, the down would be replayed so the clock should start on the RTP in this sit.

Correct. I misread it (twice). I was thinking K got a first down due to the penalty.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Correct. I misread it (twice). I was thinking K got a first down due to the penalty.

Ah in that case you would be correct...as I learned just last week.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Ah in that case you would be correct...as I learned just last week.

Great!! We can now justify our time on these forums because we are learning AND teaching and all becoming better officials!!

[ajmc]

The only reminder I might suggest, is that in situation 1, where a runner develops into being a passer, there is an additional, albeit limited, measure of leeway given to the defense according to how that transition occurs. NF: 9.4.5 (Roughing the passer) includes the language, "after it is clear the ball has been thrown" which establishes the point at which the defensive restrictions begin.

As for starting the clock on the ready after a defensive encroachment; although you have the authority to decide to hold the clock until the snap, if you decided the foul was deliberately intended to illegally consure time, your judgment to start the clock on the ready seems entirely appropriate as you mention the clock was running after the previous play.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The only reminder I might suggest, is that in situation 1, where a runner develops into being a passer, there is an additional, albeit limited, measure of leeway given to the defense according to how that transition occurs. NF: 9.4.5 (Roughing the passer) includes the language, "after it is clear the ball has been thrown" which establishes the point at which the defensive restrictions begin.

Correct. Had a situation like that recently where the QB rolled out and it appeared he could run and then he pulled up and threw and got hammered. WH said it was close, but the transition you speak of was the determining factor in him NOT calling RTP.

Of course, if they go for the head or something, you could still have unnecessary roughness, correct?

[Scooby]

Oh, by the way, I had Bill Welke, Major League Umpire on the down box for the game.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There wasn't a new series awarded. If R accepts the penalty for K's illegal formation foul, the down would be replayed so the clock should start on the RTP in this sit.

I am still of the opinion that the clock should start on the snap. If there was no penalty the clock would not start. The clock was stopped at the snap as well. The reason we stopped the clock was not solely because of the penalty.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by parepat

I am still of the opinion that the clock should start on the snap. If there was no penalty the clock would not start.

You are correct if there were no penalty, the clock would start on the snap for two reasons (1) a team was awarded a new series following a legal kick and (2) team B was awarded a new series. Neither of these things happened though because there was an accepted penalty.

In that case, you look at what caused the down to end. In this case, the ball carrier was tackled inbounds so the clock wil start on the RFP.

The clock was stopped at the snap as well.

That would only matter if you had a dead ball foul prior to the ball becoming live, otherwise the clock status prior to the ball becoming live is irrelevant when a foul occurs.

I will try to provide some rule references tonight (books are at home).