Horse Collar

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I saw it. The runner was pulled down as he went out of bounds, but it wasn't clear to me whether that counts as immediate.

I agree as well, it did not look to be what I would consider immediate. That being said, its a learning period for officials. I wonder how widespread this problem foul was for the NCAA to have been requested to implement it.

I'd be willing to bet the 5 yard FM foul will be return in a couple seasons.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

In other words, a local group who simply feels they know better than a national organization. Typical.

Yup, and then you're stuck with a bunch of rules that are poorly worded and are usually ambiguous. As you know, also the bane to many baseball umpires. Thankfully the local youth league here knows better.

[BigFarns]

Maybe I should start a new thread since this question doesn't deal with the game in question but it is a horsecollar question.

NCAA rules

Situation in an adult league game yesterday. The ball carrier is wrapped up by a player and is still pushing forward so progress is not stopped. Another B player comes in and grabs the side of the shoulder pads and pulls the runner down. I passed on the call as I understood the rule to be intended for a moving runner who is yanked back by the shoulder pads. A safety foul in my mind. The LJ on the other side of the field throws the flag and calls it. We come together and I make my case for why I passed on the call but both the LJ, U and R agreed that the correct call was made. After the game the U said he passed on it too but technically the LJ was correct. I'm not trying to fight to be right but is this a call I completely messed up? I really try to enforce the rules properly without taking over the game. Where is my view on this foul wrong?

Just trying to get better here.

Thanks for your replies.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by BigFarns

Maybe I should start a new thread since this question doesn't deal with the game in question but it is a horsecollar question.

NCAA rules

Situation in an adult league game yesterday. The ball carrier is wrapped up by a player and is still pushing forward so progress is not stopped. Another B player comes in and grabs the side of the shoulder pads and pulls the runner down. I passed on the call as I understood the rule to be intended for a moving runner who is yanked back by the shoulder pads. A safety foul in my mind. The LJ on the other side of the field throws the flag and calls it. We come together and I make my case for why I passed on the call but both the LJ, U and R agreed that the correct call was made. After the game the U said he passed on it too but technically the LJ was correct. I'm not trying to fight to be right but is this a call I completely messed up? I really try to enforce the rules properly without taking over the game. Where is my view on this foul wrong?

Just trying to get better here.

Thanks for your replies.

Stick to your guns. This does not meet the requirements for a horse collar tackle based on the way you described it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Yup, and then you're stuck with a bunch of rules that are poorly worded and are usually ambiguous.

They can be, but don't have to be. The Northern States Football League's rules referenced one of the major codes and specified the exact wording of its amendments and where they would be inserted. (They also had an informal summary of their differences from Fed, NCAA, and NFL.)

True, they were the only minor league organiz'n I ever saw do that. And apparently even the XFL's supposed official rules were written informally AFAICT. But just because you're a small time operation doesn't mean you have to have ambiguous or poorly worded rules. Hell, with the way the NFL book is written today (with lots of undefined but should-be-defined terms), I could even see a minor league's "amending" the NFL rules to clarify them!

Robert

[Texas Aggie]

I don't like the rule. I've had maybe 2 or 3 fouls on this during this year and we've passed on another 4 or 5. But recently in a varsity game, the defender pulled the runner down by the shirt -- not the collar but the middle back of the shirt -- and did the 'Roy Williams underneath the back of the legs' technique. To me, this was a more dangerous tackle than any horse collar but it didn't meet the requirement of the rule and I didn't rule it otherwise a personal foul, so it wasn't called.

[Forksref]

The horse collar is legal in FED rules only for certain coaches, fans and parents who believe it is.

Of course, their rule book is a combination of NCAA and NFL rules with a little FED sprinkled in.